NY Marriage record help
Trying to track down a marriage record for John McGuire and Mary Moran:
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/GFWS-CQ6
1899, son Thomas is born, address not listed on index, Manhattan. Both parents from Ireland.
1900 Census, they were living at 241 E 28th. I suspect their last name was misspelled, but wife Mary, and son Thomas are present. He's listed as arriving from Ireland in 1890, she is listed as arriving in 1895. Both listed as married for 2 years.
1904, daughter, Mary, born to same 241 E 28th address. Parents John McGuire and Mary Moran, both of Ireland.
1905 NY Census, same 241 E 28th address, with a new daughter Mary, age 1, and son John, age 3.
1906 - July deaths of son John and daughter Mary, now at 319 E 25th.
Can't find them in the 1910 census at 319 E 25th (or anywhere else). In fact, after 1906, the trail has gone cold so far.
I've searched the bridge and groom index cards for NYC between 1896 and 1899 and did not find any hits.
Any help or advice appreciated!
Comments
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The Irish Catholics were very reluctant to register marriages or even births with the civil authorities. The first place I look for an Irish marriage is the Roman Catholic register extracts on FindMyPast.com
John McGuire married Mary A Moran on 30 April 1899 at St Agnes.
https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=US%2FNY%2FCATH%2FPR%2FMAR%2F00312180%2FGUnfortunately, the Archdiocese of New York no longer allows FindMyPast to display the register images. It is, however, possible to request the image directly from the Archdiocese. The process can be very slow.
https://archny.org/ministries-and-offices/archives/genealogy/?2 -
And here is the birth certificate for Thomas, from the free NYC Records website. Born in Dec 1899 but registered in Jan 1900. https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/1181964
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Great finds, thank you!
Do you know if the Find My Past transcription includes parent names for paid subscribers? I'm not seeing any, but the section "About New York Roman Catholic parish marriages
What can these records tell me?" seems to indicate they should be there.0 -
The extract will only contain the names of the parents of the couple if they are in the original register. Before the Ne Temere decree, effective Easter 1908, the registers were not kept on preprinted forms and rarely contained the parents' names.
You can see in this 1915 marriage of my 2G Aunt that the parents' names are in the extract. https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=US%2FNY%2FCATH%2FPR%2FMAR%2F00188246%2FG But, unfortunately, they are incorrect.
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Ok, thanks. I am hoping to get parent names from the marriage record to confirm if they are or are not related. Maybe I can try the index cards again but focus on that specific date/month and look for misspellings.
Another little oddity. Per your find, they were married in Saint Agnes Church in Manhattan/New York County April 1899. You would think they would go back to have Thomas's baptism there about 8-9 months later in Dec 1899 or Jan 1900, but I am coming up empty. In fact, I cannot find any of their other children's baptism records there (or anywhere else on FindMyPast).
More bad searching skills on my part?
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Roman Catholic marriages traditionally take place in the parish of the bride. If John did not live in the same part of the city, the baptisms would likely be in the church nearer his residence. Not all parish registers have been digitized and extracted.
Also, in that time, most Manhattanites moved every May. https://www.brickunderground.com/live/may-moving-day
Mary Agnes was baptized in 1904 at St Stephen's. https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=US%2FNY%2FCATH%2FPR%2FBAP%2FPH2%2F004667412 -
Thomas was also baptized at St Stephen's. The birth year is an apparent indexing error.
And, John Nicholas, also at St Stephen's.1 -
More great finds! I was just typing up a response that I found John Nicolas' record, but couldn't find Thomas. Just curious - what was your search strategy to find Thomas'? I tried 1899 and 1900 birth year, but not sure I would have ever tried 1871!
Looks like St Agnes is about a mile north of where they lived on 241 E 28th. Saint Stephen's is about a block away from where they lived in 1899-1905.
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You can search by baptism year. I did a spread of 10 years beginning 1899 (using 1904 +/- 5years) to capture all likely baptisms to the couple. I restricted my search to Manhattan and New York County, but not to a specific parish.
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