Trub BE - Chorgerichtsmanual - 1680 - Fankhauser & Neuenschwander - David & Lucia

John Frankhauser

TRUB-Chorgerichtsmanual-1673---1700-Lucia-and-David-1680--pg-120.png

Translation help, please - Trub, BE, 1680 - David Fankhauser and Lucia Neüenschwander

Hello,

I'm new to this FS translation community, so please bear with me if I'm not posting in the right place.

The image that I am attaching is from the Chorgerichtsmanuale Trub 1673-1700, which I purchased from Genealogisch-Heraldische Gesellschaft Bern.

David Fankhauser and Lucia Neüenschwander are my 6th great grandparents and they had a troubled relationship. About one month after this entry Lucia gave birth to a child whose father is David, but they are not married. They married three months later.

This entry on page 120 is the first mention of Lucia and David together in these records of church disciplinary actions.

Could you please transcribe and translate the  text to the right of the yellow mark?

Thank you!
John Frankhauser

WSeelentag

As I am not sure about all the text, I'l start with a transcription:

Item Luceÿa Neüschwander, wo ... nächster tagen ...=
David könnte vnd zu Kÿrchen führen, sölle auch an disem
handel weitters trieben wärden.

Possibly David can correct/complete that - before we translate it.

Parts of this text possibly would be clearer if other notes on the case were known.

BTW - there is an extensive discussion on Fankhauser von Trub BE on the Geneal-Forum.

Daniel57704

I also have a lot of trouble deciphering the text and unfortunately can't add anything that Wolf hasn't already written. However, the Latin heading 'Citandi in posterum' (= must be summoned on the following day) gave me the idea that the text above and the lines below might have something to do with each other. Particularly interesting in the section with Lucia Neuenschwander is the introduction 'Item', which means “likewise”. I therefore think Wolf's assumption is correct that the situation would be clearer if more were known from the preceding text.

John Frankhauser

Thank you both for your quick responses! I can add another much longer section from a few pages later in the document, that might add more context.

David-F-and-Lucia-N-Nov-1680-pg-128-129.png

This is dated 3 Nov 1680, and they are married at this time. I see reference to something "Extraordinary", and they are living at Lehn. Also a reference to a "Landsvogt".

I don't need a full translation, just a general idea of the problem that led to this mention in the parish disciplinary record. I mostly am trying to find references to David's father, whom I believe is Heinrich (Heini) and the little hamlet of Zinggen. (I don't see either of those names in this text.)

I should add that in a baptism record of 11 Jul 1680, the pastor/priest uses very harsh language in describing David's lack of responsibility in not yet marrying Lucia/Luceÿa.

Thank you also for the mention of the discussion at Fankhauser von Trub BE. I have read that in the past and I am familiar with all the Fankhausers and spouses mentioned. The oldest ones are undoubtably in my line.

Thank you again for your assistance!

WSeelentag

Thanks for the additional page - will take some time: to "give a general idea" it is usually easiest to first transcribe a text 🙂. At least I can now correct the first line in the previous transcription:

Item Luceÿa Neüschwander, wo ... nächster tag in Lehn =

BTW - as you are familiar with Geneal-Forum: have you just read this discussion (guest) - or are you registered with the forum? Once we have sorted out the present "issue" it would be nice if you could briefly report on the froum as well.

John Frankhauser

Yes, I am a registered member as of many years ago, but have not posted. Thanks for the idea of posting.

WSeelentag

This text was not easy to read - the following transcription is the result of cooperation between Daniel and myself.

These are minutes of an unscheduled (usually these meetings are on scheduled days) meeting on Wednesday Nov 3 - possibly because David Funkhouser had not convinced the Higher Chorgericht in Bern (he also may not have come to this trial at all?). He seems to have strictly denied that he was the father of the child and that he had promised to marry the mother.

There is reference to "wegen seines oben geschriebenen handels" - because of the actions described above: I am not sure if the other copy (you have posted first) is the mentioned text. Are you sure there is no reference to David Fankhouser somewhere between pages 120 and 128?

Mittwuchen den 3 November ist Extraordinari
Chorgricht gehalten worden in praesentia mhhrn (meines hochwohlgeborenen Herren)
Landtvogts uff Trachselwald, und hatt erscheinen söllen

David Fankhouser im Lehn wegen seines oben geschriebenen handels
und hatt sich söllen verantworten

1. Warums er so hartt gelougnet vor mhhrn Landvogt
2. Jtem daß er hinderrucks mhhrn Landtvogts vor
   daß Ober Chorgricht zu Bern und fügt er
   fuhl (faul) in seinem leichtfertigen handel
3. hatt vor(?) mhhrn Landvogt bezeuget, er dürfte [einen]

Einen Eidt thun, dz er der Luceÿa .... versprochen, mit Jhre weder
wenig noch viell .... zu schaffen ghann, ab alsbald von dem Oberen
Chorgricht zu Bern solches bekenndt, begehrt, dz er des Chorgrichts
erlaße er wölle dz Münths z Kilchen führen, und dz kindli für daß
seinige erkennen und annemmen, und in dem chorgrichtlichen schreiben
erkennt, dz er den Landvogt und dz Chorgricht zu Trub umb seiner
groben mishandlung willen umb verzeihung bätten sölle, weillen
solhes bott nun Jhme zu wüsen gemohl worden, und er aber nicht
erschinnen ist er vor dißmphl an mhhrn Landtvogt gewiesen
worden, und sölle den ganzen handel under mhhrn Landtvogts hand
und rats bereuhwen.
Zur Straff sölle er mit mhhrn Landtvogt .....
Item die mohlzeit, so dismohlen zu Trub verzehrt, solle er bezahlen.
und sölle weiters nach seinen Meriten gestraft werden:

John Frankhauser

Wow! This is an incredible work that you and Daniel accomplished! What an interesting story, and what a character this David must have been! An unscheduled meeting of the Chorgericht just to deal with him! This information fits perfectly with the harsh words in the baptism record of the child Abraham in July, 1680.

I've made an index of all the Fankhauser names in this file from 1673 to 1700 and there is no reference to a David Fankhauser between pages 120 and 128 (unless I missed it - I will triple check.) There are references to a Hans and a Christen Fankhauser and I believe the Christen F. mentioned may be the person who was persecuted an an Anabaptist and is the focus of the modern day museum at Fankhaus near Trub, dedicated to the history of the Anabaptists in Switzerland. (We visited there in 2023.)

Thank you again for your incredible work! I felt a little guilt dumping such a long and difficult text on you!