Dinhard ZH - death - 1734 - Fluck - Anna
Comments
-
For some reason the Dinhard death register covers the period 1728-1740 twice - don't ask me why. The two entries are absolutely identical - so they are definitely about the same person.
18.12.1734
Anna Fluk [today Fluck], Kirchenpfleger Hanß Ulrich Seilers zu Außert Dynhart, ehlich hinterlaßene Witwen, aetat. 80 Jahr 9 Monat 4 Tag.
This Anna was born 14.03.1654 (calculated) - when was Anna von Flue born?
The couple got married 26.04.1673 in Dägerlen.
See also Fluck von Dinhard in Geneal-Forum. In case you want to join the discussion there, registration is free and without any obligation.
0 -
WSeelentag Thank you for the quick reply. The Familysearch profile for Anna von Flue, I am curious about potentially matching the above records to, is GMXC-DG8. It traces her descendancy in the patrilineal line directly from Saint Niklaus Von Flue, consistent with Johann Ming's 1861 book: "Der selige Bruder Nikolaus von Flüe, sein Leben und Werk", showing the family tree, right down to Anna von Flue and Hans Seiler. No further details other than their names are shown in the tree, which is attached to the profile Memories tab.
Profile GMXC-DG8 is otherwise confusing. It gives Anna von Flue's birth at Sashseln, Obwalden, as expected, but in APPROX. 1637, not 1654 as you calculated above. The profile has had numerous amendments and more than one merge. I believe this resulted in a conflation of records. Her profile shows two husbands named Hans Seiler, and each relationship join brings with it a daughter:
Hans Seiler, born 1620 (GMX8-DZB); daughter Maria Johanna Seiler, born 1658 (GMXS-VJF)
Hans Seiler, born 1645 (GRQ9-HVC); daughter Maria Magdalena Seiler, born 1675 (GMX3-DZ1)The two profiles branch out into completely different families. I have confidence that both branches are accurate on their own, as they are based on church book records provided to Familysearch users by Giswil genealogists. Interestingly enough, there is a record (attached) for Anna Flueckin and Hans Ulrich Seiler, which shows a daughter by the name of Magdalena, born in 1675 in Dägerlen.
Without knowledge of Swiss-German, nor access to Swiss archives, this mystery of Anna Flueckin/Anna von Flue is difficult for me to untangle.
0 -
Daughters are not really helpful to determine ancestors 😉 … look for ancestors directly.
Anna Fluck was actually baptized 12 March 1654 in Dinhard. Parents were Hanß Adam Fluck and Salome Engeler - who got married 15.01.1650 in Dinhard. How does that fit your other data?
This Hans (Adam) Seiler was definitely not born 1645 - 1620 might(!) be possible.
0 -
In the meantime I had a look at Bruder Klaus' descendants (the book you have uploaded): I would say there is definitely no connection between Anna von Flüe and Anna Fluck.
Is Anna Fluck amongst your ancestors? For further research the most efficient next step would be to check the Dinhard Bürgerregister (viewable at familysearch centres only).
1) Start with year 1672: Anna got married 1673 - so she should still be listed with her parents - hopefully including her parents' baptismal dates.
2) Then in 1683 check for her husband Hans Seiler - hopefully giving his baptismal date, plus children.
3) Then these dates could be checked with the baptismal records (available free, i.e. from home, from the Zürich State Archive).
0 -
After looking at the information you provided and locating a large number of further records for the Dinhard Anna Fluck/Flueckin and her spouse Hans Ulrich Seiler, I would definitely agree that they are not the same as Anna von Flue and her spouse Hans Seiler. These records will be useful for someone tracking their lineage, but just not for me.
According to Familysearch tree, Anna von Flue may be my ancestor, but this depends on the veracity of the connections. As mentioned above, her profile shows two husbands named Hans Seiler, and each alternate relationship join brings with it a daughter:
Hans Seiler, born 1620 (GMX8-DZB); daughter Maria Johanna Seiler, born 1658 (GMXS-VJF)
Hans Seiler, born 1645 (GRQ9-HVC); daughter Maria Magdalena Seiler, born 1675 (GMX3-DZ1)Only one is right. I've depicted each of these possibilities in the attached and attributed the sources relied on for these connections.
You can toggle between the two alternate spouses from Anna von Flue's family tree in order to see these two alternate possibilities: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/GMXC-DG8
This much is known:
Anna von Flue was born/baptised in Sachseln. Her spouse's birth/baptism is undetermined except that it's possibly in Obwalden canton. The location of the birth of the respective daughters is unclear but each seems to have passed away in Giswil. Sachseln and Giswil records may hold the answer.
Thanks for all your assistance in this onerous research.
0 -
OK - now you really got me confused. Let my try to re-iterate: is the following description of your research status correct?
You assume that via Anna von Flüe Bruder Klaus may be your ancestor - in order to prove that you came up with Anna Fluck. We agree that there is no connection between the two Annas - but how could researching Anna von Flüe's (or anyone else's) ancestors help to confirm that you are descendant of hers? How did Anna Fluck come into the game - did you hope the two Annas would be identical - and it would be easier to find your descendance via her?
Let me make a general comment (you may not like this). Picking a historic person and trying to find a connection to yourself by tracing his descendance is usually a waste of time. Consequently I find it difficult to give further advice on that basis.
Suggestion: we apply the standard procedure of serious genealogy - start from yourself and go back in time via proven steps. In other words: who is your earliest proven(!) ancestor in the line which could lead to Anna von Flüe?
0 -
Sorry for the delay.
Anna von Flue's (potential) connection my family line presented itself to me in the FamilySearch tree about three months ago, and I wanted to verify the sources which were used to establish the link, to either prove or dismiss. Anna Fluck was a Profile merge suggested by the FamilySearch algorithm, due to profile similarities, but it obviously led to a dead end and it is dismissed with your assistance and the relevant sources.
Per your suggestion above, Maria Magdalena Seiler, born about 1675 (GMX3-DZ1), would be my earliest proven ancestor in that line. Records of her are recorded as follows:
- Christening (Taufbuch). Page 41, line 2106.
- Marriage (Ehebuch) to Johann Josef von Ah. 21-February-1694. Witnesses Peter Ettlin & Maria Katharina von Ah. Page 44
- Burial (Totenbuch). 30 November 1721. Page 110
[Note: These are the quoted sources from Giswil Kirchenbücher records but I cannot see the actual source documents myself since they are not available on-line]. Connection to her actual parents is the missing piece.
Thanks again for your guidance.
0 -
"Anna Fluck was a Profile merge suggested by the FamilySearch algorithm, due to profile similarities, …"
… which just tells us again that one has to be VERY(!) careful with such suggestions (I never even consider them) - it is good to see, however, that you obviously are careful.
Obwalden records: yes - unfortunately nothing seems to be online (it is not my area of research). Here you'll find a short summary of where the church records are kept and (if at the State Archive) which years are covered. The Giswil records are still at the parish.
Another parish to consider might be Sarnen. According to FNBS Sarnen is the only place of citizenship for Seiler since before 1800. This does not imply that families of this name didn't live in Giswil - the Seiler line from Giswil may (e.g.) just have become extinct before 1962 (when the data for the Surname Register were compiled).
Now for Maria Magdalena Seiler: I am surprised to see that she was born about 1675, and there is a page number for her christening - but no exact date and no parents(?). Difficult to comment on that without seeing the original page.
On Geneal-Forum there are a few discussion topics on Giswil families (Seiler not included), indicating that a few members are interested in Giswil and might be able to help. May I suggest that you register with the forum (which is free of charge and without any obligation), start a new topic "Seiler in Giswil OW", describe what you know about Maria Magdalena Seiler (indicating the source) - and ask if anyone has an idea how to continue. There is no guarantee that you will get any response - but little effort 😉.
BTW - are you in contact with (or at least aware of) Heimatkundliche Vereinigung Giswil? Possibly they can provide some help.
If you make any progress with you research, let us know - or (even better) post it on the Geneal-Forum 😉.
0 -
Thanks for providing these resources. I'll look into these things. I'm aware of the Heimatkundliche Vereinigung Giswil site. There may be contacts for a couple of local genealogists which may have local insights so this will probably be my next best step. Geneal-Forum looks quite interesting too…there are many surnames I recognize from my family line within their respective communities (Giswil, Alpnach, Engelberg, Sarnen).
0 -
"Geneal-Forum looks quite interesting too … there are many surnames I recognize from my family line within their respective communities (Giswil, Alpnach, Engelberg, Sarnen)."
Geneal-Forum is the most active discussion forum on Swiss Genealogy (covers the entire German/French speaking regions in Europe - plus emigrants from there overseas): on average more contributions per week (related to Switzerland) than all other boards (I'm familiar with) together … and I'm one of the moderators (main responsibility German speaking Switzerland).
1