Help with Danish death record - Trying to find census record

G Haux

I only have this record off of family search.

death of Johan Ferdinand Schultz on 15 July 1860 in Fredricksberg, Fredricksberg, Sokkelund, Københave, Danmark. page. 75, volume 60.

I am looking for a census record that will give me more information about him but I don't know where to go to find this. I am looking through the FamilySearch records for the Danish 1860 census but I haven't found anything yet. I hope I am looking the correct place.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L943-T9KC?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQG3Y-WX28&action=view&cc=2078555

Norm Baker

There is a person in FamilySearch Tree with the same name and death date but I haven't checked to see if the information is correct. That person is here: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/KWJN-2TH.

I have looked in the Danish censuses and church records but do not find anyone by that name anywhere, so it is possible he was born somewhere else and died in Denmark.

Norm Baker

If you have access to My Heritage, this Johan Ferdinand Shultz is a "master shoemaker", same as in your death record: https://www.myheritage.com/research/record-10180-172066530/johan-ferdinand-schultz-in-sweden-household-examination-books#fullscreen

If you can use the Swedish archives, he is here: https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0055680_00382#?c=&m=&s=&cv=381&xywh=3187%2C1054%2C2309%2C1195.

G Haux

@Norm Baker

That is the person where I got that record from. I am trying to connect the dots on this family. The last records I have for him are in 1857 for the household record and 1858 for the marriage record. They are several years before this death record. I am hoping to make a connection between Sweden and Denmark to see if this is really him.

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0055687_00298 second group on right side

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTRJ-3R?i=517 entry 72 on right side

Jan266

D5204, København amt, Frederiksberg sogn, Godthaabsvej, husstand 348 - F10, Huset nr. 14 R, år: 1860
Navn, køn, alder, civilstand, stilling, erhverv, fødested
Johan Schult, M, 45, Gift, Skomager, Sverige Anne Kirstine Schult, K, 37, Gift, Hustru, Sverige Carl Vilhelm Schult, M, 11, Ugift, Barn, Sverige Kirsten Jensen, K, 43, Enke, Haandarbejde, Sverige Ellen Jensen, K, 53, Ugift, Haandarbejde, Sverige Johan Jensen, M, 14, Ugift, Barn, Sverige

G Haux

@Jan266

This is wonderful! Is there a way for me to see the actual image? Is it on the Rigsarkivet?

Jan266

https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid14354647

Press "Original Kilde"

G Haux

@Jan266

Thank you!!

Does Danmark have moving in and moving out books? The last record I have of them in Swedish is 1 January 1858 and then I have an immigration record arriving in New York 9 June 1862. I am wondering if there any records that show them moving in or out of Danmark.

Jan266

Nothing I ever worked with. But I am sure others in this forum knows a lot about immigration.

Niels Just Rasmussen

Unfortunately the archives of emigration [Udvandreprotokollerne] from Denmark to the USA (and other places of emigration) first starts in 1868.

"Saints by Sea" have Ane Christine Schultz & Carl Wilhelm Schultz emigrating from Hamburg (Germany) to New York on the ship Athenia from 21. April 1862 to 9. June 1862.
Source: https://saintsbysea.lib.byu.edu/mii/voyage/51?keywords=carl+schultz&mii=on&europe=on&netherlands=on&scandinavia=on&sweden=on
NB: In the census of 1860 all 3 of the family is registred as "mormon".

So they must have bought a ticket in Copenhagen and left for Hamburg in april 1862!

Autobiography of Ola Nilsson Liljenquist [the church leader of the emigrant-party]:
Source: https://saintsbysea.lib.byu.edu/mii/account/120?keywords=carl+schultz&mii=on&europe=on&netherlands=on&scandinavia=on&sweden=on

It was partly the very poor treatment on the ships with the mormons emigrating (1850-1867), that make the Danish government make a new emigration Law in 1868 to keep control over the firms selling tickets (page 1 of the link below).
One of episodes that really drove the need for government regulation is the case of SS Ottawa in 1866 and the fate of the 400 emigrants [not a ship transporting mormons as far as I know] from Denmark, Norway and Sweden, who were sold to Missouri as railroad slaves and most never was heard from again, except a few that managed to flee to Florida (page 2 of the link): https://m.henningbender.dk/uf/80000_89999/85186/d4272874f94fd60b887b5bc3b9f9df74.pdf

G Haux

@Jan266

Thank you so much for your help!

G Haux

@Niels Just Rasmussen

Thank you for all the wonderful information. I love gaining more insight into the process and challenges of emigration. This was very helpful.

G Haux

@Norm Baker

Any chance you will be going to the FamilySearch Library soon?

Norm Baker

I will be there on Tuesday this week-October 15. Is there something I could help with?

G Haux

@Norm Baker two items

I am trying to figure out where Johan Ferdinand Schultz and Anna Christina Kumlin with Carl Vilhelm joined the church. Did they join in Sweden or Denmark?

The Danish 1860 census shows that they are members of the church. I lose track of them in Sweden and I am unsure when they move to Denmark. I am hoping that the membership rolls might shed some light on this. I last have them in Katarina, Stockholm 1 January 1848. This the date of the marriage. I can show that they were in Denmark 1860-April 1862. Johan died in Denmark in 1860. Anna and Carl left for American in 1862. They were living in Frederiksberg, København, Danmark.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSLC-94LH?i=236&wc=WNKS-VDZ%3A1597552321&cc=2778655

Also a note for Carl Vilhelm aka Charles William that states his parents are listed as Walter Simpson and Anne Christina Kumlin and another sources stating that is can be found here -

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Endowment House, Sealings of Couples, FHL Film 183401, Book K, p 453, Line 6460.

He is shown as marrying Printha Priscilla Porter 1 March 1878.

I want to know what this record actually says since when I found his birth record there are no parents listed at all. I suspect that that Anna and Johan "adopted" him. I don't know who Walter Simpson is as I have no records of him at all.

G Haux

@Norm Baker

I don't know if my ask was too much. Sorry if it was. I was able to find a baptism date for Carl Vilhelm. He was baptized and confirmed 7 April 1859 by Jorgnson and Lars Nielson. I am assuming it was in Denmark. I think Anna Stina and Johan Ferdinand were baptized and confirmed on the same day.