need translation opinion

LBartsch

I’ve hit a wall locating my great-great grandfathers birth record. I’ve listed here what I’ve accumulated so far and have a few questions about the information I obtained from his marriage record…

Name: Wilhelm Friedrich Bartsch
AKA: Friedrich Wilhelm Bartsch

Wilhelm Friedrich Barth

Born:

Date: 14 May 1818 (or 14 May 1813)

(Marriage record of 1846 indicates Wilhelm’s age as 27 3/4 years which would make his birth date May 1818. Age’s indicated on other records indicate 1818 but tombstone indicated 1813)

Location: Numerous documents indicate Germany but not exact location. 

Parents:

Father: Unteroffizier Heinrich Bartsch (from marriage record)

Mother: Unknown (not listed on marriage record)

Marriage:

Date: 27 January 1846

Location: Bnin, Schrimm, Posen, Prussia

Wife:  Emilie Klause

[Marriage record indicates that both fathers were deceased at time of marriage]

Immigration:

USA 15 May 1873 Port of NY

Death:

27 Dec 1900 Brooklyn, NY  

(death record lists parents as “John” & “Mary”)

Note:  The marriage record contains the following:

In der Kirche vertraute man:

Wilhelm Friedrich Bartsch, Maurer hierselbst,

des Sel. Unteroffizier Heinrich Bartsch in Bromberg einziger Sohn ~

~ mit Jgfr. Emilie Klause hierselbst,

des Sel. Tischlermeister Samuel Klause

2. Tochter ~

The translation I have is:

In the church they trusted: 

Wilhelm Friedrich Bartsch, a mason here, the only son of the late Sergeant Heinrich Bartsch in Bydgoszcz 

With a young woman. Emilie Klause here, of the blessed master carpenter Samuel Klause 2nd daughter

Questions:

1. The marriage record uses the term “hierselbst” which implies that Wilhelm was from Bnin yet I have not been able to find any reference to him (or any other male Bartsch) in any Bnin documents. Should the term hierselbst be taken literally or could it mean he’s from that county, district, province or state?

2. The marriage record shows the location of Bromberg after his father’s name. What is the significance of Bromberg? Was it simply Heinrich’s last address when living? Where Wilhelm was born? Where father and son were from?

3. Does the term selig (blessed), actually mean deceased at the time of marriage? 

4. Was it typical for the name of the mother to be absent from marriage record?

5. Are there any other sources I can check for birth records?

My thanks in advance for any assistance that can be provided…

L Bartsch

sylviaelchinger1

Here are some answers to your questions, though without seeing the actual record, the answers are a bit iffy -

1. "Hierselbst" may just mean that Wilhelm was living in Bnin at the time of his marriage, but not necessarily that he was born there.
2. "Bromberg" after the father's name means that was where the father was living before his death. It could mean that he was born there, and maybe that Wilhelm was also born there, but not necessarily.
3. Yes, sel[ig] (also commonly used is weyland) means the person was deceased at the time of the event.
4. Whether the mother is mentioned varies by time and place, and also the type of document (i.e. civil registration vs. church record), and sometimes even the effort or the recording cleric. The later the record was created, generally the more information it will include. Civil registration records may note that the mother's (or father's) name is not known rather than just omit it.
5. I would check in Bromberg for a possible birth record for Wilhelm. Also, since his father was in the military, I would try to find out more about him - where he was stationed, for example, because there may be separate military church records that might record Wilhelm's birth. Also, you don't mention it, but I would check for naturalization papers in in the US - Declaration of Intention or Petition for Naturalization should have some more details. Since he died in NY, I would also check for an obituary in a German-language newspaper from that time, because ethnic newspapers often had more details about the deceased than the English-language paper in the same place.

Ashlee C.

@LBartsch Mod note: Your post was edited to remove a name that is not part of your username.
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