How do I find records of my ancestors who married in 1839 in Belfast?
My 2nd great grandparents are Robert Martin and Jane Bruce who went to India with the 84th regiment following their marriage. I have records from their time in India and eventually Australia. I am trying to find their Ireland roots. The unverified data I have is Robert Martin born 18 Sep 1820 Belfast and Jane Bruce born 1818 Dunmurry, Antrim. Married 1839 Belfast. Their first child, Jane was born in Ireland, 1840. I have searched FamilySearch, Ancestry, FindMyPast, rootsireland but could not find any Ireland records. Their children were christened in India as protestants. Any suggestions of where else I can look please?
Answers
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Hi @Lyn Mc Do you know the religion of Robert and Jane? You will need to know their religion to find their marriage record and, even, to know if the record may have survived.
Civil registration of non-Catholic marriages only began in 1845 while civil reg for Roman Catholic marriages began in 1864. So, for 1839, you will need to learn the denomination and the fairly precise location. Couples generally married in the home parish of the bride.
Sadly, many Church of Ireland (Protestant) registers were accidentally destroyed. Not all Roman Catholic registers survived, but we have fairly good coverage for those.
Hope this helps.
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Hello @Lyn Mc
As @Áine Ní Donnghaile has advised, you are interested in a time before the commencement of official government mandated records in Ireland. Thus there will not be and birth or marriage records to search for. They were simply never created.
You are thus dependent on surviving church records of baptism or marriage, which are less complete and tend to contain less information if they can be found.
Perhaps a way forward is to give us some insight into how you found the specific birth and marriage details that you have mentioned. Did these come from any documented records? Are there more details there that could assist with the task?
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They were Presbyterian according to his death certificate. Rev Kirkpatrick, a Presbyterian minister conducted his funeral.
The only document I have for Robert is his death certificate, the informant his grandson.
Died 1906, age 86, born Belfast. Parents Martin and Mulloy. Married at age 19 in Belfast to Jane Bruce.
I also have Janes death certificate. Her husband Robert is the informant so might be more accurate. Died 1893 age 75. Father Simon Bruce, shoemaker. Mother maiden name Jones. Her certificate does not give her birth or parents info.
The other dates have come from family trees that do not have supporting documents.
94ML-GQX is Roberts ID on FamilySearch
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Hello again @Lyn Mc
I had a look through Robert's record at 94ML-GQX as you had provided.
I think there are several potential areas you could pursue to develop things further.
Firstly, there are a number of conflicts you may want to iron out so that they don't impede your search. You had above mentioned that Robert's birth date was "born 18 Sep 1820 Belfast" while in his FamilySearch page you have him being born on 18 September 1820, but in Dromore, County Down. Note also that Dromore should be "Dromore, County Down, Ireland" as Northern Ireland didn't come into existence for over 100 years after this date. Adding to the confusion, his Find-A-Grave record states that he was born on 6 Feb 1818 in Dormore County Down.
There is similar confusion around Jane Bruce's date of birth. You have stated above that "Jane Bruce born 1818 Dunmurry, County Antrim". Yet on her Family Search page is shows 1818 Belfast. And on her Find-A-Grave page 1818 Belfast, County Down.
Also, you have Robert's parents named in FamilySearch as "Unknown Martin" and "Possibly Mulloy". I would remove the words "Unknown" and "Possibly" as the search algorithm will not be able to help you, as it will be looking for persons with those actual given names. Its better and more accurate to have the given name field blank and perhaps add a note in the note field under Robert's mothers name that it is not certain this is her name.
There are other accuracy items you could sharpen a little which would help the FamilySearch algorithms potentially point out to you some records or people who would be of interest. I will not detail these, but I am sure you will be able to correct them yourself.
Secondly, there are several records that FamilySearch is already pointing out to you that it would be valuable to incorporate into your people pages. I find that the more accurate detail there is in there the more gets located and suggested by the automation.
Thirdly, If Robert was in the military when he married then there will potentially be a military record somewhere giving details of his marriage. It is very likely that he would have had to seek permission from his senior officer if he wished to marry. This record may still exist in the military record. You would need to review his regimental records for this.
Potentially of interest is that the City of Belfast sits on the border of County Antrim and County Down, with the majority of the city being in County Antrim. So... if you were to discover that they married in Belfast, County Down, that would narrow your search down to about 30% of the full city.
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@Lyn Mc There are some Presbyterian records for Antrim and Down available on RootsIreland, a paid subscription site: https://rootsireland.ie/antrimdown/online-sources.php
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If you could get to, or have someone view the church records at proni it would possibly help. All church records for N Ireland are listed along with their whereabouts in a free pdf document https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/guide-church-records
If you don't already know of this it is indispensable for(northern) Ireland church records. What's available and where it is. Sadly proni have very few church records online.
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Thank you for the help. It is summer in New Zealand and the last few weeks have been too busy to look at this.
Robert Martin was entered into FamilySearch previous to 2012. I only discovered he was my ancestor through DNA in 2018.
21 May 2019 Amanda Rossel added birth 18 September 1820, County Down, Northern Ireland.
There is an obituary that has this date but nothing to say where that came from.
I have now changed his birth as recorded on his death certificate.
On Janes death certificate, the informant was her husband so presumably he knew where she was born and gave Dunmurry, Antrim as her birthplace.
I have tidied up their parents’ data. Somebody has entered information that can only be a guess.
From what I can tell from the very few military records is that he joined the military after his marriage.
I have looked at rootsireland.ie in the past and not found the right people.
Thank you. I shall follow your advice as soon as I am able. I hope to go to Ireland next year so hope I can find something to get me to the right places.
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Dunmurray is now a suburb of Belfast/Lisburn- check the PRONI church records database to see what's available - If you go to PRONI in person make sure as best you can you know exactly what it is you want to see as you can spend an inordinate amount of time going through the catalogue or waiting for documents to arrive. Can be a bit tedious that bit - and they take back all records earlier than the advertised finish time which is more tediousness 30 minutes as I recall - Thursdays I think are late opening so that's one to confirm and consider. Don't forget photo ID for your first visit. No photo ID no visit. Also they are starting to digitize the church records but are not putting them online for some reason. Another site which can be very productive is the Griffiths valuation - taken around 1855-65. It only lists the head of the family BUT it has many uses - it can be a bit of an art form to get to grips with but I have used on a number of occasions to find old family homes that are still standing. And its free - askaboutireland.ie/griffiths.
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/digitised-church-records-available-proni#toc-7. These are the so far digitised church records available - onsite only - not online.
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