Gunder Jønsen Ancestors in Dypvåg, Norway
Hi, I have a question for the group relating to the ancestors of Gunder Jønsen (b. 1462). I am a direct descendant of Gunder Jønson and while I understand the history behind Gunder Jønsen, I am somewhat perplexed with who his ancestors are. There are two Gunder Jønsen Trees I am following. The first is Gunder Jønsen Bringsvaer GGXQ-KGH and the second is Gunder Jønsen LZF8-Q68. The Gunder Jønsen tree at GGXQ-KGH ends with him. No ancestors following in this tree. However, the Gunder Jønsen tree LZF8-Q68, goes back over 2,000 years listing ancestor after ancestor. I am asking your understanding of this line. How did it get created? Did FamilySearch experts (LDS) create this line? How is it possible to get this accurate of information back into the 1,000BC? When I think of the old kings of Norway I see Harald I Hårfagre, Eirik I Haraldsson Blodoks, Håkon I, II, etc., Harald II Eriksson Gråfell, Håkon Sigurdsson Ladejarl, Olav I Tryggvason, etc. But in the tree of Gunder Jønsen LZF8-Q68, I see names like King Frithuwald "Fredalaf" (b.190), King Saemingr Odinsson (b. 239), King Gudlaug of Hålogaland (b. 463), Grim Jotne of Grimsgard, Gorm of Jutland, King Gauti Gauteksson, etc. and on and on. How are these people identified to such detail as to know their births, marriages, deaths, etc? Where is this information contained? Any comments are appreciated.
Thanks
Steve
Comments
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The 2012 add by FamilySearch means that it came over from the old new.FamilySearch system. There were many contributors to that system. If you go to "Latest Changes" on the right-hand side, you can see the UserNames of those who have made changes/contributions on this name. Be sure to click "See All" in order to see everything.
It is also possible to use the "Filter" to just look for certain items like merges, memories, etc.
There are many other choices on the list. If you want to see if the two are duplicates, you can go to "Merge by ID" under "Tools" and put in the other ID number.
Here is the Knowledge Article from the FamilySearch Help and Learning Center to help you finish merging by ID. https://www.familysearch.org/en/help/helpcenter/article/how-do-i-merge-duplicates-in-family-tree-by-id. Please let us know if we can be of further assistance. You can also call us at 866-406-1830. PaulaAnn
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Thank you. Appreciate the response. My question is how is it possible to have such detailed names, dates and events going back to 100AD or earlier with Norway records. If there is a Norway history expert in the group, I would like to have them comment.
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I've been watching your post hoping that someone could give you a real answer. Unfortunately that doesn't appear to be happening. So here are some comments from a very non-expert.
You are not going to find in FamilyTree or other online genealogy sites any archeologists involved in ancient research pouring over rune stones and posting their findings here. What you will find are enthusiasts who find in libraries various books that may or may not be viewed as reliable by current scholars and transcribing them, more or less accurately, into family trees while adding estimated data as needed. They are not using any type of primary sources. That is why the Family Tree for Charlemagne is such a mess and has such ongoing editing battles.
And, of course, there are always the problems we amateurs have of determining when history fades into mythology. That often comes down to what one wishes to believe.
Now I can't say for sure, but I would assume that everything you are seeing in the Gunder Jønsen LZF8-Q68 tree that stretches so far back is all from one of two sources, namely Snorre Sturlusson's Heimskringla and the Prose Edda which is thought to have been either complied by Snorre or written by him.
I have an abridged version in English which states in the Editor's Preface:
As a historian Snorri worked as if he were weaving a huge tapestry. From his remote Saga island - aided by two visits to Norway - he was able to collect an almost inconceivable mass of details and information, and he works all this in to give colour and outline to his mighty fabric. There are no fewer than 2,000 names of persons and places in his Saga of the Kings - Heimskringla - and of these 1,300 are the names of different persons. To the contemporary reader, and not least a non-Norwegian reader, all these names and details of personal history would be burdensome. For this reason parts and sometimes whole chapters, not essential to the sequence of events, have been omitted from this edition.
The Introduction states:
Is the Heimskringla a reliable historical work? The answer to this must be that Snorri wanted to write what in those days, amongst well-informed men, was accepted as the truth about events that had taken place up to 300 years earlier. But we have very little contemporary and documented evidence from which to check his account. First and foremost Heimskringla is a saga, and that means that it is in the first place a work of art, literature within a historical framework.
Snorre lived from 1179 to 1241. The Heimskringla covers from very ancient history to 1177.
Google any of the names you list and you will find trees all over the place. Copies of copies that were taken from other copies. I did find an online tree that stated that King Frithuwald "Fredalaf" (b.190) is mentioned in the Angelo-Saxon Chronicles but not in the Prose Edda. Do the compilers of these trees view them as established fact? Or are they just taking on a fun project on the order of the family tree of Bilbo Baggins? Who knows! Are any dates established in ancient documents or are they all of the order of "he would have gotten married about age 20, had kids frequently, so their birth dates must have been..., died during that war so was probably..." Again, who knows!
Regarding King Gudlaug of Hålogaland (b. 463), I was able to find this passage in Heimskringla:
Jorund och Erik voro söner till Inge Alreksson. De lågo ute i härnad under hela denna tid och voro stora krigare. En sommar härjade de i Danmark; de träffade då konung Gudlaug från Hålogaland och hade med honom en strid, som slutade så, att Gudlaugs skepp blev avröjt och han själv tagen tillfånga. De förde honom i land vid Straumeyjarnes[72] och hängde honom där. Hans män uppkastade en hög över honom. Så säger Eyvind "skaldefördärvaren" (https://heimskringla.no/wiki/Ynglinga%C3%A4ttens_historia)
From google translate:
Jorund and Erik were sons of Inge Alreksson. They were out in arms during this whole time and were great warriors. One summer they raided Denmark; They then met King Gudlaug from Hålogaland and had a fight with him, which ended with Gudlaug's ship being wrecked and himself taken prisoner. They brought him ashore at Straumeyjarnes[72] and hanged him there. His men threw a mound over him. So says Eyvind the "skaldefördärvar".
In summary, what you find in Family Tree so far back is just what some ordinary users have transferred there from compilations of trees based on quasi-historical and mythological sources. The likelihood that you will find any sources you can make any personal use of other than Snorre is zero. That means you have the choice of accepting these trees as interesting possibilities and attaching them to your lines with notes as to their speculative nature or just accepting that all of us have branches that just end because we have come to the end of anything that can actually be proven.
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