www.familysearch.org
Family Search
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Place Names (Database) Team
https://www.familysearch.org/research/places/
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Possible "Addition" of a 'Place Name', rather than just as an "Alternate Name".
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This is a little confusing; because, I cannot immediately locate when the name of a Town/Village changed from the old(er) version of the name to the new(er) version of the name, for a 'Place'.
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The current situation/status in the Place Names (Database) relates to a (Civil) "Parish"; and, NOT a 'Town"/"Village":
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Wilshamstead, Bedfordshire, England
https://www.familysearch.org/research/places/?focusedId=10615189
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and,
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Wilshamstead, Bedfordshire, England, United Kingdom
https://www.familysearch.org/research/places/?focusedId=2964467
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Which the "FamilySearch" 'Place Names' (Database) record the place as a "Parish", with the 'Map' "Pin" in the 'middle of nowhere', certainly not a 'Place', this partly the problem/issue.
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The name of the ACTUAL (main) "Town" / "Village" has been spelled in many different ways over time, including "Wilshamstead" and "Wylhamstead".
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Whereas, "Wilstead" is now the current usual spelling of the name of the "Village" of "Wilstead"; BUT, to confuse matters; and, make matters worse, the "Civil Parish" is (still) today named "Wilshamstead".
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Currently in 'Google' "Maps", there IS the "Civil Parish" of "Wilshamstead", with 'boundaries', which takes in a number of 'Places' (ie. Hamlets/Villages/Town of: Wilstead, Duck End, Wixams) ; whereas, there IS now currently the Village/Town of "Wilstead".
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Civil Parish (with boundaries): Wilshamstead
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Town/Village: Wilstead
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I am concerned that in the "FamilySearch" 'Place Names' (Database) there IS the (Civil) "Parish" of "Wilshamstead, Bedfordshire, England / United Kingdom" as a 'Place'; BUT, there is NOT, the "Town" / "Village" of "Wilstead" as a 'Place', only included as a "Variant Name".
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I have done some quick 'homework' through the INTERNET:
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Just some of the more promising resultant sites:
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WikiPedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilstead
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Vision of Britain
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/1401
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British History Online
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/beds/vol3/pp325-328
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UK Geneology Archives
(1)
https://ukga.org/england/Bedfordshire/towns/Wilshamstead.html
(2)
https://ukga.org/england/Bedfordshire/towns/Wilstead.html
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Can you please investigate the aforementioned problem/issue that I have raised.
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If you agree with me, could you please ADD the 'Place Name(s)' of "Wilstead" (References x2 = Wilstead, Bedfordshire, England; and, Wilstead, Bedfordshire, England, United Kingdom ) in the "FamilySearch" 'Place Names' (Database) as a separate "Town" / "Village", rather than a "Variant Name".
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Certainly, retain the 'Place Name(s)' of "Wilshamstead, Bedfordshire, England" and "Wilshamstead, Bedfordshire, England, United Kingdom" as they are a 'Civil' 'Parish".
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'Thank You' in advance.
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Brett
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Comments
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Brett, a team member is reviewing your post.
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Your request has been received. Work is being done to clarify the difference between the village (which was also a civil parish), the ancient parish, the parish church, and its churchyard. We hope you will be pleased with the additions to the database.
We appreciate your interest in FamilySearch Places.😊
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@Teeples Jeanine Cardon1 and @ARMorgan ARMorgan
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Jeanine TEEPLES
Place Names (Database) Team
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'Thank You' for, both, your, efforts; and, response, in this post of mine.
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Whereas ...
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Unfortunately, I CANNOT say that I am please with the additions to the database, in relation to this post of mine.
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And, I know that you may be saying that ... you cannot please all of the people all of the time ...
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But ...
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You have NOT addressed/fixed the original premise of my post.
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You have simply added additional "Places", that most likely need to be included; but, failed to add the "Places" that I requested; and believe, should ALSO be included, in addition to what is there NOW.
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You have basically 'added' (x2 new = 1 & 2) and 'changed' (2 old = 3 &4) "Ecclesiastical" parish (in fact, getting rid of the "Civil" parish) of:
(1) Wilstead, All Saints Wilshamstead, Bedfordshire, England, United Kingdom
https://www.familysearch.org/research/places/?focusedId=10924336
(2) Wilstead, All Saints Wilshamstead, Bedfordshire, England
https://www.familysearch.org/research/places/?focusedId=10924335
(3) All Saints Wilshamstead, Bedfordshire, England, United Kingdom
https://www.familysearch.org/research/places/?focusedId=2964467
(4) All Saints Wilshamstead, Bedfordshire, England
https://www.familysearch.org/research/places/?focusedId=10615189
rather than the actual "Place", 'to wit', the "Village"/"Town" of "Wilstead, Bedfordshire, England"; or, "Wilstead, Bedfordshire, England, United Kingdom".
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My Ancestor was not associated with, either, the "Civil"; and/or, "Ecclesiastical", Parishes.
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My Ancestor was associated with the "Village"/"Town" of "Wilstead, Bedfordshire, England"; or, "Wilstead, Bedfordshire, England, United Kingdom".
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I am sorry to be a 'nudge'.
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Please ADD the additional "Place" Names of, both, "Wilstead, Bedfordshire, England"; and, "Wilstead, Bedfordshire, England, United Kingdom"; as, separate and standalone, "Place" Names in the database.
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'Thank You' in advance.
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Brett
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Brett,
You will find the Village is in our database "within" (part of) the Parish.
https://www.familysearch.org/research/places/?focusedId=10924335
and
https://www.familysearch.org/research/places/?focusedId=10924336
If you have trouble finding this village, please let me know. I'll do my best to help.
Jeanine Teeples
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Brett,
I can see you are concerned with the terminology. Hopefully this explanation will help.
In England, what we now call civil and ecclesiastical parishes began as "ancient parishes" which evolved from "manors." These were simply divisions of land that the king appointed lords and sheriffs to watch over and govern. Just the same as counties and earldoms were larger divisions of land that the king gave to Counts and Earls to watch over and govern, these divisions were the responsibility of whomever the king appointed to govern all the hamlets, farms, and villages on that division of land. The lord was to manage the production and profits, make sure the king got his share, the lord got his share, and make sure the peasants who lived and worked that land were also cared for.
Such is the case with the village of Wilstead - its boundaries were within the boundaries of a division of land once governed by a lord assigned by the king. Manors evolved into ancient parishes. Ancient parishes evolved into ecclesiastical parishes - when the king decided to give the clergy of the local church the responsibility to care for the poor peasants. So for a time, the church leaders kept records and collected money from the bishops and diocese to care for the poor. In the 19th century, ecclesiastical parishes were relieved of the responsibilities of caring for the poor, and civil parishes with their governing councils evolved. Thus their boundaries began to change slightly, but basically, stayed close to the original "manor" and "parish" boundaries.
The word "parish" acquired a secular usage. Since 1895, a parish council elected by public vote or a (civil) parish meeting administers a civil parish and is formally recognized as the level of local government below a district council.
So when you see "parish" it doesn't mean your ancestor belonged to a specific church or religion - it simply means that the records of the people within that division of land (the hamlets and villages) were kept by the civil or ecclesiastical jurisdictions that were over that area.
The saint names were added to the parish names when ecclesiastical authorities were in charge of caring for the parish's inhabitants. This is how they dedicated the land to their patron saint. Saint names remained as part of the place name, even after civil authority took over. I hope this helps. As mentioned in my last post, the village is a separate entity under the broader jurisdiction of the parish in which the village was located.
Jeanine Teeples
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@Teeples Jeanine Cardon1 & @ARMorgan ARMorgan
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Jeanine
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'Thank You' for the history lesson.
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I was aware of a great deal of that history.
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And, although we are from "Down Under", we have spent some time in the 'United Kingdom' (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) and 'Ireland' where we learned a great deal of history.
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But ...
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That said ...
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My relative, was born in the latter half of the 1800's; and, died, just in the latter half of the 1900's.
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My relative was NOT 'Ancient', nor (as far as I can find out so far) did they relate to the "Parish" with the "All Saints" (Church) reference (research has not yet indicated; but, they may have even been "Non-Conformists").
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WHY do you have some 'Place Names' in the database with, BOTH, the ancient name, WITH the "Parish" included; and, the more modern name, WITHOUT the "Parish" included; and, yet, when a User/Patron asks/requests you to include the more modern name, WITHOUT the "Parish" included, you are RELUCTANT to do so?
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In this case, I am NOT interested in "Wilstead" being WITHIN part of the "Parish" as a "Place Name"!
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Surely, the "Place Name" of, both, "Wilstead, Bedfordshire, England"; and, "Wilstead, Bedfordshire, England, United Kingdom"; as, separate and standalone, exist TODAY; and, ARE valid "Place" Names that SHOULD be/NEED to be INCLUDED in the database!?
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If I have an Ancestor/Relative who fitted into/within the ANCIENT "Place Name", WITH the "Parish" included, I would so use that "Standard"; but, in this case, my Ancestor/Relative DOES NOT; so, I want a "Standard" that DOES NOT include the "Parish" reference in the name.
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Am I WRONG for wanting/requesting the "Place" Names of, both, "Wilstead, Bedfordshire, England"; and, "Wilstead, Bedfordshire, England, United Kingdom", WITHOUT any reference to the ANCIENT "Parish"; as, separate and standalone, to be ADDED to the "Place" Names in the database?
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'Thank You' in advance.
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Brett
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Family Search
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Place Names (Database) Team
https://www.familysearch.org/research/places/
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I see that the "Place Names", with reference as a Village/Town, of:
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Wilstead, Bedfordshire, England
https://www.familysearch.org/research/places/?focusedId=10924335
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Wilstead, Wilstead, Bedfordshire, England, United Kingdom
https://www.familysearch.org/research/places/?focusedId=10924336
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Have been added to the database.
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'Thank You' so much, it is very much appreciated.
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I am sorry to be such a 'nudge'.
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Brett
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😀
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Brett,
Alan's special skills are focused on the Slavic countries; mine are in British countries. Otherwise, Alan might have replied to your last comment. He passed on your concerns to me - we work as a team. We try to use the most authoritative sources we can find to assure our data is as complete and correct as possible.
We are always happy to do what we can within the bounds of our team's guidelines. We truly appreciate your interest in FamilySearch Places, and hope you have success in your research.
Best regards,
Authorities Team
😊
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