Blumenstein BE - marriage - 1604 - Erhard&Spring - bride's parish? -

Gina Palmer

Marriage 5 Nov 1604 of Wolfgang Errhart and Elsbeth Spring in Blumenstein (Bern) parish

I think this marriage entry states the parish the bride is from but I need some help deciphering the name.

Link to full image: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-PFS2-B6?i=1&cc=1640373

WSeelentag

With such a difficult handwriting is is essential to have a larger example - best the full page - to "learn" the writer's hand.

Although image quality on the Bern State Archive site is often inferior I have tried to find the entry there - no success. Could you, please, give an exact reference (book and page) - not just a link which I cannot open.

Gina Palmer

@WSeelentag Here's the reference

Taufrodel (1600-1704), Eherodel (1600-1704), Totenrodel (1726-1753), K Blumenstein 2, PDF image 130, page 258, number 12 (last entry)

https://www.query.sta.be.ch/Dateien/18/D94391.pdf

WSeelentag

Thank you für the link - but am still not sure if I can help 😊. I read

Ittem (= 5 November 1604) / Wolffgang Errhart / und Elssbeth Spring(in?) / uss der Kilchheri ……… / ouch uff Jar und tag als / obstende.

This differs from the usual wording (averaged) "hend ir bezogene Ehe mit offenem Kilchgang bestätigen lassen uff den [date]" … might be an indication that the ceremony didn't take place in Blumenstein.

Still leaves the question of the parish: I couldn't find the same or a similar name in the surrounding pages, and whatever guess I came up with, none seemed to make sense.

Unless someone else here comes up with a solution, I recommend to ask this question on https://www.geneal-forum.com/, where you'd get a larger readership of experienced researchers, including experience in canton Bern (which is not my area of expertise).

Gina Palmer

@WSeelentag Vielen herzlichen Dank für Ihre Hilfe. I appreciate the transcription of the rest of the entry as well. I will follow your recommendation.

WSeelentag

I have supplemented your post there a bit - the image quality from familysearch is better than from the BE Archive. Also, it's possible to link to the page directly - just unfortunate that this doesn't work with all browsers.

I hope someone comes up with a solution on the forum.

Daniel57704

I grew up about 14km from Blumenstein, but even I can't find a place in the area whose name would match here. A bold guess from the Register of Swiss Surnames (https://hls-dhs-dss.ch/famn/index.php?lg=e) would be Reutigen (10km southeast of Blumenstein). On the other hand, the name of the parish does not necessarily have to match the hometown. Nevertheless, I have tried to check the marriage register of Reutigen, but the entries do not begin until 1698.

Another possibility would be that the woman's name was Springer. This name is native to Lüen (GR), Osterfingen (SH) and Halden (TG). But again, none of these places even remotely matches the scribble and besides, they are outside my research area.

WSeelentag

On https://www.geneal-forum.com/phpbb/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=32939#p123908 Boltigen was suggested - but also with a question mark. However, there is no corresponding note in the marriage register of Boltigen.

Gina Palmer

@Daniel57704 Thank you for taking time to look at this and for your suggestions.

@WSeelentag Thank you for your continued efforts in this matter here and in the other forum.