Help with translation of Hungarian Marriage Record
I need help with the full translation of line 7 of this marriage record for Bela Vasvari and Suzanna Szabo. Please and Thank You!
Comments
-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939K-T53F-85?cc=4133831
(Links are good because they offer more context and better zoom than attachments.)
---
1885
7. 11 October.
Groom: Béla Vasvári, elementary school teacher
Place of origin and residence, house-number: Kecskemét, Dévaványa
Reformed, age 22 years, single
Bride: Susánna Szabó, daughter of István Szabó teacher
Place of origin and residence, house-number: Paks 1281
Reformed, age 25 years, widow
Witnesses: Jósef Varga bootmaker, Sándor Molnár merchant
Officiant: Ferencz Katona assistant pastor
Announced
Remark: at the time of the announcements, the groom was the organist in Paks.
0 -
Thank you Julia! I think I have the correct Bela Vasvari now with this document. New information on Susanna though. I did not realize she was widowed. As always, you are so willing to use your talents to help everyone else! I appreciate all you do for this community!
0 -
Birth/baptism record that matches that 1885 groom's age and place of origin: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939K-RT3L-8M
436. 1863 November 10, 15.
Béla, male, illegitimate
Parents: Ferenc Vasváry, Ref., tradesman; Sára Böddi, Ref.
Residence: Kecskemét
Godparents: Sándor Páskai tradesman, Juliána Sárközi
Officiant: Lajos Furgonyi assistant pastor
Remark: Ferenc Vasváry is not the legal husband of Sára Böddi, but he declares the child to be engendered by him, and desires to write him under his name. Legitimized by a marriage that occurred on 21st June 1864.
---
And a second (or later) marriage by the same man, with a witness with the same name as the groom: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6L49-L57?i=83&cc=1452460&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A6629-FM7Q
678. Budapest, 18 October 1917.
Groom: Béla Vasváry (wid.), cantor, Ref., born 10 Nov. 1863, res. Nagyszalonta
Parents: Ferencz Vasváry, Sára Böddi
Bride: Mária Nagy (wid.), Ref., born 7 Apr. 1884, res. Budapest I. Ménesi road 74
Parents: the late Terézia Nagy
Witnesses: Ernő Schey, Budapest I. Ménesi road 74; Béla Vasváry, Budapest II. Fő-street 57.
(The witness added the noble predicate "Atillakuti" in his signature.)
0 -
Well, this is a lot of information to take in! I would have never known this without your help Julia. I need to unattach Bela’s inaccurate parents in my family tree(s). I have thought for sometime that Beno Vasvari and his wife were not his biological parents but did not have any documentation to prove who his father was and now I do! Thank you again for your invaluable help!
Do you know where would I look for Hungarian death record’s, especially for Zsuzsanna Szabo Vasvary, Bela’s first wife? She gave birth to her third child in 1890, so I’m looking for a death date after November, 1890.
Thank you again!
0 -
I did some basic looking already and didn't encounter her death, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't look, too.
FamilySearch's collection of funeral notices has not been indexed, but they were filmed in alphabetical order. (Married women are generally sorted by married name, luckily -- there are about 5000 notices with the surname Szabó.)
The National Széchenyi Library has another collection of funeral notices; it overlaps FS's to large extent, but is searchable by (OCR-ed) name -- meaning that it'll often turn up relevant notices where the input name is found as a mourner rather than as the deceased.
Indexes of marriages and deaths in Hungarian church registers have been randomly showing up since last summer, but it doesn't look like Dévaványa's Reformed church has been done yet. (I tried putting the film number in the appropriate field in Search - Records and got No Results. The catalog hasn't been updated in over a year and a half now, so you can't go by its icons.) This means that the only way to check for deaths there between 1890 and 1895 is to page through the death records, image by image. (1890 November deaths start on image 619 of film 8549811).
FS's records-conservation contract that allowed them to film Hungarian church registers was very specifically for before the start of civil registration, so the images end very strictly on 30 September, 1895. Like the church registers, the civil ones have also been showing up randomly among the indexed records, and this time Dévaványa is among them, but there's no sign in the index of a Szabó Zsuzsanna married to a Vasvári Béla. (I checked up to 1920.)
I paged through 1890-91 deaths in Dévaványa and didn't find her. It's of course entirely possible that I missed it, but it's also possible that the reason they don't have any more children baptized there is that they moved. Béla's re-marriage has his residence as Nagyszalonta in 1917. That was in Bihar county, and is now in Romania, which unfortunately means that there's basically nothing available online. If he moved there with Zsuzsanna, that would explain the lack of results in searches.
Ayup: he was already in Nagyszalonta in 1911, as énekvezető "song leader" (i.e. cantor).
0 -
Oh: the Béla who was the son of Benő was a pharmacist, and he died in 1937 (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6SGS-W18?i=236).
I found some registry entries for Béla and Zsuzsanna's son Endre; I went ahead and attached them in the Tree.
0 -
Thank you Julia. Words are not enough to express my appreciation for all your help in finding my Hungarian ancestors. You are amazing!
I'm so glad that we found the two Bela's and I now have the right Bela Vasvari and his parents and siblings.
I have a question regarding Ferenc and Sara Boddi. If I read the document correctly, Ferenc was not the legal husband of Sara Boddi at the time of Bela's birth. Was Sara married to someone else? Did she get a divorce? Did Hungary keep divorce records either civially or church wise?
I'm so glad that Ferenc stepped up, took responsibility for his son and married Sara. I found more siblings which tells me they were a commited couple.
Again, thank you for all you do!
0 -
Per the marriage record, no, she wasn't previously married, but he was.
1864
47. June 21.
Groom and bride: Ferenc Vasvári, tradesman legally divorced from his wife Judit Csiszár; the late tradesman István Böddi's daughter Sára
Residence: Kecskemét, end of Kőrösi circle; Kecskemét, ditto
Religion: Ref., Ref.
Age: 45, 30
Status: divorced husband, befallen
Witnesses: István Kovács church chief notary and advocate; Sándor Páskai tradesman
Officiant: Lajos Turgonyi assistant pastor
Announcements: May 29, June 5, June 12
Remark: Divorce decree see No. 1864.XIV.
0 -
Thank you for finding this information Julia! I am very grateful for your assistance!
0