I am looking for information about my Italian ancestor, Carmine Antonio Porrelli. According to his g
"Naples" could of course refer to the area around Naples or even the Kingdom of Naples. Somewhere in his life he moved to Glasgow, Scotland, and from there to Melbourne, Australia in 1874 (from familysearch passenger lists). He lived in Australia a few years, and eventually moved to the Dutch East Indies, where he died in 1919. In Indonesian newspapers he appears with another Italian, named Francisco Antonio Porrelli. They were (most likely) brothers. Since many Italian emigrants around that time came from the Frosinone region, Carmine may have come from there. Carmine and Francisco were ice-cream manufacturers. There is also a village called Porrelli in Frosinone, but I was unable to find my ancestors there online.
I know this information is quite vague, but I have no experience at all with genealogy in Italy myself, so maybe you can help me find where my Italian ancestors came from.
Since all my records come from other countries, Carmine's birthday isn't fixed, seeing that most Italians at the time couldn't read or write and thus wouldn't always know their birthday. "Porrelli" is also often spelled as "Porelli", with only one r.
I hope you can help me!
Answers
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Hi, there is still a “Porrelli ice cream” in Scotland, in Paisley. In this link it mentions San Biagio as the place they emigrated from in Italy. https://porrelli.com/porrelli-95th-anniversary/
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It could be San Biagio Saracinisco as many Italians living in Scotland came from the province of Frosinone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Biagio_Saracinisco
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Hello,
Start with the website Indettaglio as it is a great resource for Italy. It means "in detail" in English. You can do a surname search by region and possibly narrow down your research because it will produce a lists of villages where they likely resided. http://italia.indettaglio.it/eng/cognomi/cognomi.html
The region for Naples is Campania necessary for the surname search engine so when I enter the surname Porrelli I do not get any results, possibly indicating that may not be the most correct or common way it is spelled in Italy. When I enter Porelli with one 'r' then the only village that results is Cava de' Terreni in the Province of Salerno (About 40 minutes south of Naples.) http://italia.indettaglio.it/eng/cognomi/cognomi_campania.html.
If you enter Cava de' Terreni in the Family Search Catalog by going to 'Search' then 'Catalog' on the drop down menu and entering Cava de' Terreni in 'Place' you will get nine civil records that cover up until 1865. https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&placeId=117134&query=%2Bplace%3A%22Italy%2C%20Salerno%2C%20Cava%20de%27%20Tirreni%22&subjectsOpen=1291489-50.
I suggest that you start by searching the fifth civil record in the list: Italia, Salerno, Cava de' Tirreni. Stato civile, 1809-1865 at: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/2060550?availability=Family%20History%20Library. I realize his birth date may be off (humans tend to forget the year more than the month and day) so you should be able to find an index, but start with known year and expand 1-2-3 years earlier and later if you cannot locate it under 1846.
If you scroll down to the bottom of the list provided, after you click to open the civil record you will find "Nati 1846" on two films: #5814438
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9Q8-N7Z9?mode=g&cc=1935404&cat=2060550 and # 5813319 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89QC-QQZ2?i=369&cc=1935404&cat=2060550 . Click on camera image and it will connect you to the documents. I do not see an index, but there are not too many images to scroll through. They should, usually, be chronological so you can start with the date you know, but you may need to search several months before and after. If the images are locked you may need to go to the nearest Family History Center.
If you are not comfortable reading Italian, see Birth Document Translation under 'Family Search Wiki' and after entering 'Italy' https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Italian_Birth_Document_Translation This will really help you!
If that record set does not give you desired results, then go to the eighth one on the list of Civil Records: Italia, Salerno, San Pietro (Cava de' Tirreni). Stato civile, 1813-1863 and scroll down to Nati 1846 to film #5814442. Also, no index, but not too many images.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9Q8-N74N?mode=g&cc=1935404&cat=2060559.
Well, that should keep you busy. If you locate the record and need translation help just post here on Community and someone will help you.
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Hello,
Thank you very much, I think this well definitely help me in my research!
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Hello,
I have another question regarding Italian names in the 19th century. I couldn’t find anything about this on the internet, so maybe you can help me.
Carmine and Francisco both have the second name “Antonio”. Could this mean anything? For example a family member or saint called Antonio?
I also wondered if Italian first names commonly referred to saints. I read about Santa Maria del Carmine online, and I thought that maybe Carmine Porrelli was named after this saint? And could that mean that he was baptised in a church devoted to Santa Maria del Carmine?
I hope you can help me.
Kind regards,
Sem Beljaars
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I am more inclined to think it is a family name. “Carmine” is a common name in the south of Italy.
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