Kirchdorf - marriage -1743 - Strÿtt - groom's given name is Bendicht not Bentz

Debra Palmer01

The record is from FamilySearch: Ehe-Rodel, Staatsarchiv Bern, K Kirchdorf 8, on page 31, year 1743, 6th entry for Bendicht Strÿtt and Christina Trachsel.

This is the marriage record for Bendicht Strÿtt and Christina Trachsel and the names match the parents listed in the baptism record of Maria Strÿtt in 1749.

Also could you explain the meaning of "Haben allhier Kirchenrecht gehalten".

Thank you again!

WSeelentag

"Haben allhier Kirchenrecht gehalten" means they got married. On this single page a large number of different wordings were used to document the marriage:

so sich mit … verehelicht, einen Schein geben

einen Schein geben (no "so sich mit … verehelicht")

haben miteinander Kirchenrecht gehalten

haben Kirchenrecht gehalten (no "miteinander")

haben allhier Kirchenrecht gehalten

sind allhier copuliert worden

haben sich allhier copulieren laßen

sind allhier ehelich eingesegnet worden

To issue a "Schein" was required if one of the married couple was not from Kirchdorf.

I have asked on https://www.geneal-forum.com/phpbb/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=32069 whether these differences were just due to the pastors' preferences - or implicitly gave some additional "secret" information, like that the bride was already pregnant.

In a previous post you mentioned that in the range from 1743 to 1761 you had found 10 baptisms with Christina Trachsel as mother and the father either Bendicht or Benz Streit - leading to the question whether Bendicht and Benz were the same person (Benz can stand for both Bendicht and Bernhard). To find out whether possibly the given name just changed over time, it would be useful if you could list all baptisms, giving: date and name of child, father's name and what is noted about his origin or place of residence.

Debra Palmer01

I appreciate the question you asked in Geneal-Forum about the different wordings, which includes the wording in Bendicht and Christina's marriage record. Thank you!

Here are the baptisms for the children of Christina Trachsel and either Bendicht or Bentz Strÿtt/Streit:

1) 13 Oct 1743, Barbara, Bentz Strÿtt in der Insel. (page 12)

2) 11 July 1745, Starb 1748, Anna, Bentz Strÿtt in der Insel. (page 15) See 1st and 2nd images below (full page and snippet) for death record (page 40 3rd entry), the age of 3 years old when she died would be correct. As parents often would name a child the same name after a child who had died, I think the death of this daughter could explain why there was a second daughter named Anna baptized in 1751 but only if the father's name changed over time. Could you let me know if the death record is likely a match to the baptism record. FYI I attached the images here to save time rather than in a new post. This is just an exception to the rule this time.

3) 5 March 1747, Jost, Bentz Strÿtt in der Insel. (page 18) See 3rd and 4th images below (full page and snippet) for baptism record (3rd entry on right). The record was a bit confusing with the eodem and the parents out of order so I included it. See 5th and 6th images below (full page and snippet) for a possible death record in 1757 (page 9 7th entry) for Jost Strÿtt but I don't see the father's name. Just a word that begins with "B". If Jost died in 1757, it would explain why there is a child named Jost baptized in 1761. The father's name Bentz is the same in both (1747 and 1761) baptism records.

4) 6 July 1749, Maria, Bendicht Strÿtt in der Insel. (page 23)

5) 11 April 1751, Anna, Bendicht Streit von Kilchdorff. (page 29)

6) 24 June 1753, Salome, Bendicht Streit in der Insel. (page 35)

7) 30 Nov 1755, Christina, Bentz Streit in der Insel. (page 42)

8) 21 May 1758, Christen, Bentz Streit in der Insul [4th letter "u" not "e"?] zu Kilchdorff. (page 52)

9) 30 Jan 1761, Jost, Bentz Streit in der Insul [again "u" not "e"?]. (page 63)

Thank you for your help with the Streit family.

The records are from FamilySearch: Toten-Rodel, Staatsarchiv Bern, K Kirchdorf 8 (1727-1751) and Toten-Rodel, Staatsarchiv Bern, K Kirchdorf 13 (1752-1799).

WSeelentag

Thank you for the list!

I have my doubts about the Jost Strÿtt death entry 1757 - he would have been 10 years old - but I read "Bauer in der Insel" and no age (age seems to have been noted for children only). My conclusion: this Jost doesn't belong to the family, might be Bendicht's brother, father or other relative.

On the page of the marriage records we have two groups of wordings: 1) verehelicht / copuliert / ehelich eingesegnet, and 2) containing Kirchenrecht. Group (1) I would attribute to the personal preference of the pastors. "Kirchenrecht" (church law) could indicate a situation where the Chorgericht had become involved. Now - if we assume that Barbara was actually a daughter of Benz/Bendicht Strÿtt and Christina Trachsel, marriage took place 33 weeks prior the birth/baptism - most likely the bride would have been pregnant then. Question: was that already known - or was there another reason why the couple had to stand up to Chorgericht?

Now we have Bendicht (marriage 1743), then Bentz (baptisms 1743-1747), then Bendicht again (baptisms 1749-1753), finally Bentz (baptisms 1755-1761). I am sure this is one and the same family. The slightly odd ones out are Anna, Bendicht Streit von Kilchdorff (the first entry by the new pastor) and Christen, Bentz Streit in der Insul zu Kilchdorff (why the addition of Kirchdorf? … and I have no explanation for the Insul).

Debra Palmer01

Thank you very much for your answers about whether Bendicht and Bentz were the same person!

I agree with your conclusion that Jost in the 1757 death record does not belong to the family. I found the record using an index. I just went through the death registers again by hand for the years 1747-1761 and there is no death record for a Jost who was baptized in 1747. I have heard that occasionally parents gave a name to a child whose older living sibling was also named, which I think is most likely the case for the son Jost baptized in 1761. What do you think?

I appreciate your analysis of the "wordings" in the marriage records. That is interesting and makes sense. Considering your calculation that the marriage of Bendicht and Christina took place 33 weeks before Barbara's birth/baptism, I agree that Christina was very likely a few weeks pregnant when she married Bendicht. Your suggestion that the couple had to stand up to Chorgericht and your possible reasons why, is interesting for family history, but unfortunately the story cannot be known!

I had thought that Bendicht/Bentz Streit in the marriage record and baptism records was likely the same person and the same family. Thank you for confirming that. As for "Anna, Bendicht Streit von Kilchdorff" and "Kildhdorff" not being consistent, my conclusion is she belongs in the family because I think she is the sister named as a witness in the baptism of Maria's son Johannes Küenzi. I haven't decided yet about the inconsistency that you pointed out for "Christen, Bentz Streit in der Insul zu Kilchdorff", because Kilchdorff as the residence of Bendicht/Bentz has not been mentioned in other records at least that I have seen. I have just seen Kilchdorff as a place of citizenship.

Thank you again!

WSeelentag

"I have heard that occasionally parents gave a name to a child whose older living sibling was also named, which I think is most likely the case for the son Jost baptized in 1761. What do you think?"

Quite a few cases are known. My personal assumption is that the children were named differently in the family - not just the single name given in the baptismal record-

Debra Palmer01

That's helpful to know that two siblings with the same name was not as uncommon as I thought. And your assumption about an additional name makes sense. Thanks!

WSeelentag

"Your suggestion that the couple had to stand up to Chorgericht and your possible reasons why, is interesting for family history, but unfortunately the story cannot be known!"

If there was a case at the Chorgericht, it would be documented in the Chorgerichtsmanual (https://community.familysearch.org/de/discussion/comment/466326/#Comment_466326). They have been digitized and the one for Kirchdorf is available for sfr 40. Several of these DVDs seem to be available in SLC - unfortunately Kirchdorf doesn't seem to be amongst them, at least it is not mentioned in the catalogue.

Debra Palmer01

I will first ask about the DVD for Kirchdorf at the FHL, to see if it's there. Thank you so much for this information about the Chorgericht, that possibly took place before the marriage of Bendicht and Christina! And thank you for the link - I read your posts about the Moral Courts and that was interesting.

WSeelentag

"I will first ask about the DVD for Kirchdorf at the FHL, to see if it's there."

Send me an email if not.