Gregory Kawan Marriage Record
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Yes, it's in the Czech.
On January 19, 1751, the following persons were confirmed to be married: an honest man Řehoř own son after the deceased Petr Kavan from ???, with an honest girl Barbora own daughter Matěj Ko****k, a neighbor from the town of Chrudim. Wedding companion: Jakub Vrzalík from Polná, bridesmaid Anna Drozdová from Chrudim.
Quality of the picture is not very good so I'm not sure about bride's surname and groom's place.
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Thanks Jakub Zikmund.
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Thanks so much Jakub Zikmund! This is so helpful! Just a couple more questions if you have the time. Why is this document in Czech? I thought the Czech empire didn't come about until after October 1918. So why is the document in Czech instead of German like the others I have found? Also, is the name Rehor the same as Gregory in German? Is Matej the same as Mathes in German? Is it possible the name of the town where Petr Kavan is from is Nemecice or Nemecitz? Is it possible that Barbora or Matej's surname is Koryniky or Korenik in German? I am attaching a close up of the document in case it may help with the translation. Thank you again, very much, for your help.
Drew Burkey
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Do you have a link so Jakub can blow it up to see the bride's surname and groom's place?
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You can use genteam.at as a gazetteer for Czechia. It is free but you must register. You can start typing the town into the search and it will pull up possibilities. Then when you pull it up click on the page icon for more info and a link to the archives. Also from Wikipedia: Matej is a given name that originates from the Slavic nations of Central and Eastern Europe. It's one of the most common male names in Slovakia and Slovenia. It is also common in Croatia. The name is originally derived from Matthew the Apostle.
Matěj, with the ě diacritic, is a Czech given name."
I have also seen it as Matthias.
One place I use to check the spelling of the surnames is https://www.kdejsme.cz/ I am not sure the town starts with an N. If we had a link we could compare it with other letters.
I think the surname could be Koryniky. Is there an index for this record as they are usually careful with the handwriting in an index.
Betseylee
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Wow! Thanks for the gazeteer references and the info on Matej--never thought to look at Wickipedia. Here is the web address for the marriage document: http://www.portafontium.eu/iipimage/30063093/chudenice-02_0670-o?x=118&y=373&w=355&h=143
Thank you!
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Oh, I didn't see the website for the surname check when I first read it. Thank you! Hopefully it will give me an idea of the German translation as well. Good idea. I will check the index!
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You are very welcome. We are glad that you posted on our new site. And we are really glad to have Jakub Zikmund to help us.
Betseylee Browning
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- Fact that Czechoslovakia was established at 28 october 1918 doesn't mean that people didn't use written Czech. It depended on person who wrote the record.
- Yes, Řehoř is czech variety of Gregor.
- Matěj is same as Mathias in German but Matěj is not Matthew. Matthew is Matouš, in German Matthäus, Matheus. Sometimes it's difficult to recognize which name is in the record.
- It could be Němčice but the first letter looks like V not N, I'm not sure, sorry.
- Barbora surname is probably Kořínek (written as Mateje Kořzinky)
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I think the town begins with a V too.
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Ok. I will check into a V town. Not having much luck with Nemecitz.
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Wow, what a blessing to have your advice and expertise! Thank you, thank you, thank you! Just one last question: I was researching online because the name looked like it had a "z" in it--like you noticed with Korzinky. So, would that be Korinek or Korzinek in German--they are both listed as names? Or, would it be better to just write it in Czech?
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As you wish, I think everybody who have ancestors in Bohemia, Moravia or Slovakia would understand all the varieties.
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There always is variety in the spellings of Czechia surnames. I pick the most current Czechia name and put them in my database all under this surname because I need consistency to find them and not duplicate them. Then under their name I list all the alternate given names and surnames that I find that person under in the records with the source. That way in the future, when someone is using my database they will know all the names. This is something I do but I don't know if anyone else does this.
Betseylee Browning
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Thanks Betseylee Browning,
I do this as well. I was just unsure as to whether I should list the name in Czechia or translate it to German since most of the records appear in German and the name most likely is spelled in German at a later date. I think I will go ahead and use the German, since that is what I have been doing, and record the Czechia as an alternative spelling.
Thank you and Jakub Zikmund for all your help!
Drew Burkey
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Something that is important to realize is that for most Czechs, German was the language of their conquerors. It was required on the documents because the Germans required it, many of the Czechs spoke it, but for most it was not their native language. If you go back far enough (1600's) the records were kept in Czech (old Czech so some of the words and spellings were different), then the church switched to requiring Latin. In the 1700's I think, German was required by law, until sometime in the 1800's when they were able to switch back to their native language. There were Germanic people living there as well, but most would have gone by the Czech version of the names, and spoken Czech in their homes and businesses.
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So, the thing that confuses me, is the country was Austria from about 1273 to 1918--right? So was the official language was Czechia? I get confused because I see the German, Latin and Czechia. But I usually don't see the Czech until after 1918. I guess if they just used whatever language was prevalent or required at the time, I understand that. But, it makes it difficult to know which name version to use. I was just using the version of the later German name--because sometimes it would be spelled like "Catherina" and later "Katherina" or "Carl" and later "Karl", so I would just use the "K" for both birth, marriage and death as that was the later spelling. So, I would use Mathias instead of Matej or Gregory instead of Rehor--simple because that is how it is spelled later--in German, not Czechia. Striving for consistency. But, now I am having second thoughts as to if this is the right way. But, it seems better to do this then to spell a person's name two or three different ways over the course of their life depending on what language was used or how the clerk happened to spell it on the official record. Anyway, thanks for your input. It helps clarify some things.
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Wanting consistency in doing Czechia research make me chuckle. I can tell you how I do it, so I don't lose my mind. So I pick the current way to spell the name and put it in my database. I use the given name he would have gone by in life. I put all other given and surnames in alternate spellings. Usually you would use the name that appears on the christening but I cannot keep track it I use all the versions of the names as the main name. There were no rules about spelling. Also some have alternate names. "Alias Surnames. In some areas of Germany, individuals took a second surname. In the records, the second surname may be preceded by the word genannt, vulgo, modo, sive, or alias. This practice was common in the provinces of Westfalen and Hannover and parts of Rheinland and Schlesien.
The development of alias surnames was often tied to agriculture. When a man moved to a new farm, he sometimes changed his name to the name of the farm. Also, when a man married a woman who had inherited a farm, his name may have changed to her family name. In this situation, some of the children born to the couple may have used his surname, while others in the same family used the wife's family name." I feel this applies to the Czechia, even though this is out of the Germany Personal names section https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Germany_Names,_Personal.
For the history, Czechia was part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. "Following the Battle of Mohács in 1526, the whole Crown of Bohemia was gradually integrated into the Habsburg Monarchy. The Protestant Bohemian Revolt (1618–20) against the Catholic Habsburgs led to the Thirty Years' War. After the Battle of the White Mountain, the Habsburgs consolidated their rule, eradicated Protestantism, reimposed Catholicism, and adopted a policy of gradual Germanization. This contributed to anti-Habsburg sentiment and resentment of the Catholic Church that continues to this day.[19][20][21][22] With the dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire in 1806, the Bohemian Kingdom became part of the Austrian Empire (1804 to 1867) and the Czech language experienced a revival as a consequence of widespread romantic nationalism. In the 19th century, the Czech lands became the industrial powerhouse of the monarchy and were subsequently the core of the First Czechoslovak Republic, which was formed in 1918 following the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian Empire after World War I." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Republic
Betseylee Browning
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Thank you Betseylee, I never imagined this could be so complex. I'm sure, as a beginner, I am only glimpsing the tip of the iceberg--so to speak. But little by little, I am understanding!
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There is a great blog for beginners. http://czechgenealogy.nase-koreny.cz/ You are never bored with Czech research. Don't give up. We are here when you need help.
Betseylee
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There is a pretty steep learning curve, but it is so rewarding. So few of the Czech records have been indexed and very few of the dead have received their ordinances. In the last year or two we have done the work for hundreds of my direct ancestors and their children and I have shared thousands of their descendants names to the temple. The records can be hard to read but they have so much information recorded compared to, say England. In one birth record you can sometimes get three generations! If you keep at it, pray often for help in learning, and ask lots of questions, you will learn and they will help you from the other side. They want so much to be found!
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That is amazing that you have been able to do the work and have the work done for so many of your ancestors, Joanna. I am not young, but I have only recently started. I used to help my mom when I was younger. Back then, we had to send away for names from Czechoslovakia and it cost us $60 a record! So glad that has changed as it really limited what we could do. Now the records are easy to find online--though not easy to read! Thank you for the encouragement. I have had some pretty amazing experiences already. I know what you mean by them wanting to be found!
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This data should help. My advice is to check out an excellent tree on Ancestry.com. Do a search on Rehor Kavan born 1827.
http://www.portafontium.eu/iipimage/30069896/uboc-01_1470-n?x=-33&y=-13&w=689&h=277
Baptism 8 Feb 1727
Child: Gregorius
Parents: Petro Kavan & Anna
Uboc 1 parish
see also one of the later children born to Gregory Kavan and Barbara
http://www.portafontium.eu/iipimage/30063092/chudenice-01_2620-n?x=63&y=388&w=763&h=307
Baptism: 7 Jan 1766 in Chudenice
Child: Wenceslaus, son of Gregory Kavan & Barbara, his wife.
I know he was Petro when he married but perhaps the priest picked up on his father’s given name of Petr (Petro).
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This is very helpful information, Thomas Peters. Thank you so much for taking the time to comment!
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Thanks so much Thomas Peters for helping.
Betseylee
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Glad to help.
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