Michigan documents
Hi, I'm having trouble finding birth and marriage records from ancestors in Ontanogon and Houghton counties from about 1850 to 1900. Julia Kneale Carlyon Treglown is my direct ancestor, her ID # is 9F4P-Q7L. I have found her on her daughter's marriage info (my grandmother) and in the 1900 census, but there is a gap. Somewhere there, I think her first husband died - William Henry Carlyon, and she remarried a Treglown. She had a baby die young, and I have that record. I would like to track the Carlyon line, but haven't been able to verify his parents or lineage, other than born in England. Suggestions? or any help you could offer? They were copper miners that came from Cornwall. Thanks
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I have been working on your request: “I would like to track the Carlyon line, but haven't been able to verify his parents or lineage, other than born in England. Suggestions? or any help you could offer? They were copper miners that came from Cornwall.”
Before responding to your request, I would like to point out a couple of really tricky fact patterns in your line:
(1) It appears that your Julia E Kneale 9F4P-Q7L is (you may already know this): Julia E. J. Kreale on the 1880 US Census; Julia E Kenale when she married William H Carlyon in 1883; Julia Ellen Jane Carlisle (or Kreeal – “Carlisle” may be an aberration of "Carlyon") when she married John Treglown in 1888; Julia Treglown on the 1900 US Census; Julia Kneale on Carrie Carlyon’s 1908 marriage record; and, Julia E Traglown on the 1910 US Census; or in other words, Julia Ellen Jane Kneale Carlyon (Carlisle?) Treglown!
(2) It appears that your Carrie Carlyon 9F4P-QQG is (you may already know this): Clara C (C for Carlyon) Treglown on the 1900 US Census; Carrie Carlyon on her 1908 marriage to Jos (Joseph) A (A for Anthony) Williams; and, Carrie Anthony (why they used her husband’s middle name as her surname is a mystery) on the 1910 US Census.
Relative to your request. Are you familiar with FindMyPast (FMP)? It is a family history service like FamilySearch, Ancestry, etc., but I have found it is often better at finding information in Britain than most other services, and when you become family with its format, it is even easier to navigate (for me).
In FMP I MAY have found your William Carlyon (no middle initial “H”) born in 1859 (according to his 1870 baptism record) or 1860 (according to his 1861, 1871 and 1881 [a Farmer’s son, not a miner] England, Wales & Scotland Censuses), in St. Keverne, Cornwall, England, to Edward (an ag laborer, not a miner) and Elizabeth Carlyon. (This hyper-link will hopefully take you to the 1861 England Census in FMP, though you may have to set up a FMP account, and you can navigate from there to other records, 1861 England Census) Though some of his siblings do, this William Carlyon does not show up in the 1891 England Census, but I could not find an England death record for him between 1881-1891, so he may have immigrated to America in time to meet and marry Julia in 1883. However, I could not find an immigration record in FMP or Ancestry for him leaving Britain or arriving in the USA (in my experience, this happens quite often).
I hope this is helpful!
Ronald H. Olson
Group Leader, Mid-West Genealogy Research Group
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Thank you, thank you for your investigations! I am truly an amateur, and have spent a lot of fruitless time looking for a lot of info which you have found in a day! I did know many of the variations of Julia's name on the census, etc., but you have also found more. I had been looking for a record of Julia's marriage to Mr. Treglown, but didn't have his first name. May I ask how/where you found that, as I would also like to look at it? I also hadn't found Julia in the 1880 Census, but looking under Kreale, maybe I can now.
That is very interesting about the possible William Carlyons, I will certainly look at that more. It's very possible that they were farmers instead of miners- the miner history in my family is primarily on the Joseph A. Williams line, and probably the Kneales. So interesting that they would put my Gfathers middle name as Carrie's surname in the 1910 census. Part of the reason I'm interested in the Carlyon line is that reportedly, my Gmother Carrie (Carla) Carlyon claimed that there was a connection to the C'oeur d'Lion lineage and remotely connected us to Richard the Lion Hearted. I think that probably wasn't true, but she supposedly spoke with a Bishop Carlyon, Dean of the Iliff School of Theology, Denver University, who confirmed a connection. That must have been sometime around 1930 when they were in Denver. Bishop Carlyon supposedly published a history of that branch of the family, but I haven't been able to find it.
I will definitely check out the FMP site, as I haven't used it yet.
Just curious if you know if you're related to a Carl Olson that had a sports shop in Glen Arbor, Michigan in the 1950s- 70s? He was my mom's (Phyllis Dumbrill) boyfriend for a while, and we knew their family for years.
Again, thanks SO MUCH for your work on this,
Alice
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My older brother is a Carl Olson, but he lives in St. George and has never lived in Michigan.
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@AliceWilliams-Root
I found Treglown's given name (John) in Ancestry.com, "Julia Ellen Jane Carlisle", Michigan US Marriage Records 1867-1952, marriage date 8 march 1888 in Central Mine, Keweenaw, Michigan, USA. It also provides parents' names and mother's maiden name.
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Thanks for the info! I don't have Ancestry, but I was able to find the record on Family Search using the Carlisle spelling you found. My tree is mostly on My Heritage, but I think I like the search better on Family S. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Do you have any other suggestions for finding a death record on William H Carlyon or a way to verify his parents? Thanks again
Alice
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Naming patterns can be an indication, if not a confirmation, of relationships. For example, Carrie Carlyon's youngest son, Edward Kneale Williams (G3YY-RTC), preserves Carrie's mother's maiden surname (i.e., Julia E KNEALE), and possibly Carrie's paternal grandfather's and granduncle's (William Carlyon's brother) given name (i.e., EDWARD Carlyon and EDWARD Hy Carlyon).
You might search for Edward and Elizabeth Carlyon's (William Carlyon's parents) death (1881-1891, they are in the 1881, but I could not find them in the 1891 England Census) and immigration records to establish a confirmation with William H Carlyon (9F4P-Q7F). You might also search William Carlyon's siblings for confirmation of some sort (they are all sisters, which makes it tougher if they get married) except for Edward Hy Carlyon who is found all the way through the 1901 England censuses).
Good luck in your detective work!
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Thanks again for your help and tips. I hope to get some time today and later to do some more searching! Take care,
Alice
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