I know from an index that Piter Geernaert was born on 21 Oct 1657 in Ingelmunster, West Vlaanderen,
However, there are two records for the 21st and I can read them. Can someone identify which record is the correct one and translate it for me? Many thanks.
Answers
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Yes, these are difficult documents to read. But are you sure you have the right entries, i.e. the right year? On 21 Oct, the first entry is for and Elisabeth and the second for niclaes.
Do you have a link to this that you can provide?
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You are very correct Fritz, those are also the names i read.I just came up with the same.
The list is a list of baptisms, and the first sentence is fixed protocol, always
"is Gedoopt, t' kind" --so "is baptised the/child from (name of parents)both and the next name is that of the child.
21 oktober possibly would be 29 okt.?...
Adrie
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Might be my lousy handwriting, can you check August 21 on the same page? Thanks!
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This is the page btw, i could enlarge it very far, but it confirms..etc
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1W-9SSP-L?i=152&cat=107758
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Sorry , no Petrus in August also.
The names Geirnaert and Geernaert are both present in Belgium, and by this , also in Ingelmunster.
Found a lot of Petrus Geirnaert's in Ingelmunster, and many In the 1700 st, but none in 1657...Do you have other clue's?
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This is the index I am working from.
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This index is very helpful and confirms the page number. The month is not Oct; it's Oust=August.
Adrie, please give your opinion to what I say. Have a look at entry number 42, 21 August
Look at the 2nd word after Kindt. I see something like Gernaert. Then in the 2nd line the abbreviation for genoemt, then PR, which I think must be Petrus/Pieter.
Adrie, what do you think? Do you see that?
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By any chance, are the parents named and readable?
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I can see 3 times 'Pieter Geernaert' , one in the year you mentioned(year is debatable), one in 1688, and one in 17 etc..
the year could be 1647 , 1654 etc , depending on the time-bracket on the indice.
But the one from 1688,could be a possible candidate?or do we have a reason to exclude him?
Its Pieter btw , not Piter,
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if we agree that the G is dislocated/not carefully attached,the rest of the word could be Geernaert, the name of the Father i cannot read but is very nice defined, the mothers name seems to be Tassenmakers.But that is also a profession.
I'm doubtfull about the abbr, (Pr) , i can see it elsewhere also sometimes.
We have it all at hand, probably, Dr Juengling, but we did not check 1688 until now.Not sure i can find it.
Given the period, the index must be in Dutch, not in Latin, so that is a match for now.
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I went back over it again,specifically to examine your induction, Dr Juengling, and after enlargement to big size and writing over the fonts on a printed draft,i have to agree with you that this line is the correct one, as it is indeed , August, and the name is Geirnaert..
I checked some other years initially like 1654, 1649, 1653 for the batches of August, but after some time i became aware of the page-number in the church book(289) right corner,
(8 is tilted), preceded by 288 the page before.
Exactly this number is also given in the indice presented by Meg, altough it could easily be misinterpreted, see=>indexpage. So if we make a summary, 289, August, 21 th, 1657, then all we need is a correct read of the document.
I also located the repository where this books are kept,as public domain,and availiable online if one makes an account in the Belgisch Rijksarchief; the correct batch should be the Dutch batch, as the rest is in French and Latin.I will give it pro-forma,as making an account in the Rijksarchief can be very tricky , difficult and frustrating, making one invalid attempt will compromise further attempts.Again, Pro-forma.
Ingelmunster Parochie Sint Amandus second line after unfolding Ingelmunster,the bracket between 1600 and 1703 , should be in Dutch, and scan are availiable if one has an account. But we already have the book's images.
Anyway, the best way to proceed is to sort out the correct read of the line.
Adrie
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Tassemaker is a valid Dutch familyname,its a derivate from
Tassemaker (Thesschenmaecker).So we can maintain that, clearly readable.
Not certain if it is the name of the father or mother.
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Disregard the latter sentence, i am certain that it is the name of the mother,as Geirnaert is the name of.. en the baptism of the child.
That was rather slippery of me.
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The father's name is Jan in the original entry that we were looking at.
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I will check further tomorrow, have to go now, but Pieter/Piter/Petrus kept on bugging me, apparently i used the wrong angle, if the abbr you pointed out,=
Petri it would solve the case?
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Fritz, I went back over it several times,and if i look closely at the person just above the line of intrest,the womans name,it shows a very strong resemblance with the name of the mother just under it, so if i use the J from Jan as start, it would be , Joolijn,and just below it(our target) Joorijn, they appear very similar.
Both are valid names today spelled as either Jolijn and in our case ,Jorijn. The dubble oo could be local or left behind along history.The first sentence of the person above the page also contains the term 'Bastaert', this as an aside.
Could you be so kind to give your expertise on the subject?--Joorijn Tassemaker?-
Adrie
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Adrie,
even before I read your note, I thought the mother's name wa Joorijn. I think you are right!
Fritz
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Thanks for the review,and the examination,it is very nice to find people that were hidden in history.Many are not aware of the importance of it.
In cases like this , i always load the palet with additional info that is of no need for the non-geneologist, like say, the actual location of "Ingelmunster" on google maps and Google earth,and the place of the actual church of baptism,(still in existence),and subsequentely , i can travel around it with Google earth and dig into Wikipedia, or other
sourcing material.
After a quick read it showed today that the church had it interior
destroyed during the Iconoclastic Fury.Its interior is restored 3 or 4 times after that.
So, we keep it at "Joorijn" -and familyname Tassemaker, and i would strongly suggest to Meg, to drop "Thesschenmaecker" as a search-term
in the geneologies prompt.(i did , awsome results!)
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sint-Amanduskerk_(Ingelmunster)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeldenstorm
Kind regards, Adrie
drop line to Meg.
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Many thanks, Adrie and Fritz! Great information and assistance.
Meg
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I should add that Adrie is a HUGE help in this forum. Always willing to help and gives accurate and detailed information.
Thanks to Adrie!
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I worked in a factory since i was a boy of 14 until i retired at 56 yearsof age,so i missed out on education big time, but selfstudy and evening classes for 9 years
helped to fill the gaps ,.the rest of my knowledge i grabbed from books for the part of history and geography,and i developed my way of thinking by studying
all the big names of philosophy and their worked out model's of modern thinking.
The work of Dewey,Pirsig, William James,Popper, Plato, Sokrates led my along the pathway's of discovering the analytical knife.Their depictions of history learned me of New England,Big sur and Utah,additionaly uncovering religion and its trails.
but , unfortunately my knowledge is not from the shelf of normal structured education, and i have a big lag behind me.Paleontology is absent in the batch,i missed out on the G of Geirnaert, i had to search for the old books and ways of writing in Europe in that time-frame to see your point, wich was correct, so you see, i discover things every day, sometimes with the inductions of others, sometimes as an epiphany,or sometimes by accident.I discover gems that lay hidden for a long time.
The main reason i like this forum Fritz,is that it is free of charge,and people are very friendly and helpfull in all matters of intrest.The site is also free of
papal bulls, and completely carried by the LDS organisation and their own resources.The warehouse is truly massive, so massive in fact that it has become a sort of universum.
Adrie
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