'Family history Christopher and Sara J McGuirt
My current research shows that Christopher and Sara immigrated to
the Ghent/Philmont New York area at different times in the mid 1800s.
Christopher's birthdate is shown as 1830, His immigration date is
around 1850. He passed in 1912. Additionally, he must have returned to visit
his relatives as he is shown as returning to the Phila, PA port in 1900. He was
a house painter by trade and lived in Philmont at that time. No known siblings
in the USA with the possibly exception of Sara J. McGuirt, She was born in 1838
and apparently immigrated at a very young age in the 1840s, She resided in Ghent, NY
passed in 1906, Christopher had her buried in nearby Valatia, NY and was buried
in the same plot in 1912. They both showed Derry (Londonderry) as their home but family
folklore suggests they came from the area of Monaghan in Northern Ireland. Sara was
infirmed in 1875 and the documents state that she has been in the USA for 30 yrs.
She must have arrived at a very young age. The documentation for Sara shows that her Mother,
Dad and sister/s were dead but that 1 brother was self supporting.
Kommentare
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My goodness...I neglected to state their surname.... McGuirk
Sara J. was known as McGuirk not McGuirt.
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Hello Floyd,
You didn't mention with what aspect of Christopher and Sara McGuirk's genealogy your were seeking assistance.
If you are looking for birth certificates, unfortunately their birth dates are before the date when civil registration started in Ireland, thus there will be no birth records to find.
As an alternative to birth records, church baptism records are a possibility, however these are somewhat less complete. Having parents names would be beneficial in locating baptism records.
Regarding the question of their home being County Monaghan or County Londonderry (Derry), one less than perfect way of helping determine this is by looking at the earliest available full census records of Ireland in 1901 and 1911. Although these are much later than the births you are interested in, they still give an indication of distribution of population on the island of Ireland. The 1901 and 1911 census show that County Monaghan had 93 and 71 people with the name McGuirk in those two years. While for the same years, County Londonderry had zero for both years. Thus, it could be conjected that County Monaghan is a more likely home location for them.
At the time of their emigration to the US, the city of Londonderry in County Londonderry was the normal departure point for people in the northern part of Ireland when leaving for the US. So, potentially, they may have referred in documents to that location as a departure point.
US Naturalization documents are a rich source of family information. New York ones in particular are very detailed in what information they capture. You should investigate these.
Similarly New York immigration documents commonly contain details of who paid for the ticket, the name of a key contact in their country of origin, their last address in the country of origin, and the name and address of the person they are going to meet in the US.
Also, if Christopher returned to Ireland for a visit, there will be records of his passport application which could contain details of the destination he intends to visit, the reason for the visit and possibly a head and shoulders photograph.
Have you added Christopher and Sara to the FamilySearch family tree? If you can share their FamilySearch reference numbers I am sure people will be able to assist with your investigations.
Best regards, John.
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John,
Thank you for getting back to me.
Hello Floyd,
You didn't mention with what aspect of Christopher and Sara McGuirk's genealogy your were seeking assistance.
Points well taken. Allow me to clarify my objectives :
1. To identify the names of Christopher’s Mother, Father and siblings.
2. To identify Sara J’s Mother, Father and siblings.
3. To determine what the family link is between Christopher and Sara.
As Christopher arranged for them both to buried in the same grave it seems likely that Sara was a sister or cousin.
If you are looking for birth certificates, unfortunately their birth dates are before the date when civil registration started in Ireland, thus there will be no birth records to find.
Thanks for that info.
As an alternative to birth records, church baptism records are a possibility, however these are somewhat less complete. Having parents names would be beneficial in locating baptism records.
Unfortunately, we don’t have the names of the parents for either Christopher or Sara J..
Regarding the question of their home being County Monaghan or County Londonderry (Derry), one less than perfect way of helping determine this is by looking at the earliest available full census records of Ireland in 1901 and 1911. Although these are much later than the births you are interested in, they still give an indication of distribution of population on the island of Ireland. The 1901 and 1911 census show that County Monaghan had 93 and 71 people with the name McGuirk in those two years. While for the same years, County Londonderry had zero for both years. Thus, it could be conjected that County Monaghan is a more likely home location for them.
That was my conclusion after seeing similar data coupled with relatives here suggesting that County Monaghan was the likely home for the family.
At the time of their emigration to the US, the city of Londonderry in County Londonderry was the normal departure point for people in the northern part of Ireland when leaving for the US. So, potentially, they may have referred in documents to that location as a departure point.
US Naturalization documents are a rich source of family information. New York ones in particular are very detailed in what information they capture. You should investigate these.
Similarly New York immigration documents commonly contain details of who paid for the ticket, the name of a key contact in their country of origin, their last address in the country of origin, and the name and address of the person they are going to meet in the US.
Also, if Christopher returned to Ireland for a visit, there will be records of his passport application which could contain details of the destination he intends to visit, the reason for the visit and possibly a head and shoulders photograph.
"Pennsylvania, Philadelphia Passenger List Index Cards, 1883-1948," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KFDX-LSR
: 23 February 2021), Christopher Mcguirk, 1900; citing Immigration, NARA
microfilm publication T526 (Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records
Administration, n.d.); FHL microfilm 1,380,290.
Any suggestions as to how to access any of the above mentioned information such as passport records, ship lists, immigration records and the like ? I located Christopher’s Naturalization record but it did not contain his parents names. As he served in the Civil War here he obtained his citizenship using his enlistment documents.
Have you added Christopher and Sara to the FamilySearch family tree? If you can share their FamilySearch reference numbers I am sure people will be able to assist with your investigations.
Christopher is shown in my McGuirk family tree GHN3-187. As Sara J has not been confirmed as a family member she is shown under people associated with my tree GZV9-N8R
Best Wishes,
Floyd
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An update:
I just uncovered some family research information which was done 12 + years ago.
It shows the following:
. Christopher was born abt. 1832
. He arrived in the USA on 22 Feb. 1851 in the Port of NYC
The ship was named “Marmion” which departed from
Liverpool.
. His parents were James and Ellen McGuirt.
. He was born in Lobinstown, Meath Ireland
. He was Baptized 20 May 1849 in the Johnstown Parish
. His siblings are listed as Philip, William, Mary, Rose, Anne
& Jas.
Unfortunately, there is no documented source for this information.
Sara J. McGuirk is absent from this information.
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Hello Floyd,
I found your FamilySearch page for Christopher McGuirk. Its at [GHN3-1B7], you had given a "B" as a "8". You have done an excellent job in putting all the available information together and documenting it well.
There is a baptism record for a Christopher McGuirk on 20 May 1849 in the parish of Johnstown in County Meath. See a close up of the image below.
You can find this full image at ... https://registers.nli.ie/ and searching on the map for County Meath, then selecting Johnstown Parish and searching for baptisms against the date.
Although this is a record for a Christopher McGuirk, its important to find a way to tie this particular Christopher to your Christopher. That's where the details usually found on immigration, naturalization, military service, marriage or death documents can be vital.
I would suggest that this is very unlikely to be your Christopher. Catholic baptisms in Ireland have always been performed as close to birth as possible, at times on the day of birth. A Catholic adult baptism would be more than highly unlikely. If this were to be your Christopher he would have to have immigrated to the US at age 3 and have married in 1866 at age 15. Additionally your Christopher has several pieces of documentation placing his birth around 1830.
The 1900 immigration record that you pointed out is his return to the US after visiting Ireland. His initial 1850 immigration record would likely hold much more valuable information.
As he served in the military, his full US Veterans Administration or Military record there would be interesting. There is a VA pension cart relating to Christopher at this address.....
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2M2H-Z9Y?treeref=GHN3-1B7
Additionally there would seem to be records relating to Christopher at Fold3 as indicated below...
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NHZ3-HMS?treeref=GHN3-1B7
Another fruitful area should be the details of Christopher's marriage to Samantha Smith. I see you have entered this as 18 Jan 1866 in Mellenville, NY. I don't see a record or source supporting this. If you have this marriage record, I would expect it to contain the names of the couple's two fathers, or perhaps all four parents.
Best regards, John.
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John,
Thank you for all of your suggestions, insights and links.
I found your FamilySearch page for Christopher McGuirk. Its at [GHN3-1B7], you had given a "B" as a "8". You have done an excellent job in putting all the available information together and documenting it well.
Thank you. Sorry about that error.
There is a baptism record for a Christopher McGuirk on 20 May 1849 in the parish of Johnstown in County Meath. See a close up of the image below.
I did view that image…thank you.
You can find this full image at ... https://registers.nli.ie/ and searching on the map for County Meath, then selecting Johnstown Parish and searching for baptisms against the date.
Although this is a record for a Christopher McGuirk, its important to find a way to tie this particular Christopher to your Christopher. That's where the details usually found on immigration, naturalization, military service, marriage or death documents can be vital.
Prior to the Internet I had been able to obtain his full military service and pension records. *Hard copies No family background data there.
I have the naturalization record posted but there is little useful information there. It is dated 25 October 1856
I actually visited the Town Clerk’s office in Philmont and viewed his death record.
* hard copy
Little valuable news there other than he was not buried in the large Family Plot with his wife (Samantha) but in Valatie, NY. We later discovered his grave site and he was buried with Sarah J. McGuirk who had passed in 1906.
Samantha has passed two weeks prior to Christopher…in 1912. He was Catholic and she was Protestant hence different burial sites. There were local restrictions at the time whereby religion determined where one could be buried.
I have the church record where Christopher and Samantha were married on 18 January,
1866.. No useful info there. * hard copy Reformed Church, Mellenville, NY
I have managed to locate records of Samantha’s parents. There may be useful information regarding Christopher there.
I would suggest that this is very unlikely to be your Christopher. Catholic baptisms in Ireland have always been performed as close to birth as possible, at times on the day of birth. A Catholic adult baptism would be more than highly unlikely. If this were to be your Christopher he would have to have immigrated to the US at age 3 and have married in 1866 at age 15. Additionally your Christopher has several pieces of documentation placing his birth around 1830.
Yes…everything I have seen points to an approximate birth date of 1830.
He was in the military service from 1861 to 1865.
While I can’t speak to the family baptisms in Ireland my family opted for later baptisms. I received mine at the approx.. age of 17. However, I agree with you…this Christopher is likely not to be mine.
The 1900 immigration record that you pointed out is his return to the US after visiting Ireland. His initial 1850 immigration record would likely hold much more valuable information.
As he served in the military, his full US Veterans Administration or Military record there would be interesting. There is a VA pension cart relating to Christopher at this address.....
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2M2H-Z9Y?treeref=GHN3-1B7
Additionally there would seem to be records relating to Christopher at Fold3 as indicated below...
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NHZ3-HMS?treeref=GHN3-1B7
Another fruitful area should be the details of Christopher's marriage to Samantha Smith. I see you have entered this as 18 Jan 1866 in Mellenville, NY. I don't see a record or source supporting this. If you have this marriage record, I would expect it to contain the names of the couple's two fathers, or perhaps all four parents.
Please see note on this above.
So far I have not located Christopher’s information regarding his immigration to the USA in 1850 nor his passport information regarding his return back to Ireland.
Best regards
Floyd
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Brief update:
I located the following in some research papers by another family member:
. Christopher McGuirk arrived in the port of NYC on August 29, 1851
on the 198 ton sailing ship conqueror which sailed from Liverpool with223 aboard. One
died in the voyage. The ship's master was Charles Bouhlite.
. Christopher was listed as being 17 yrs old and his occupation was that of a hostler
( a horse groom or stableman).
. I did a search of all the ships arriving in NYC in August 1851 but didn't find his
ship,
. I did note that the Port arrival form only recorded Name, age, sex, occupation, departure
port, arrival port and had a column for died. Not sure if it had a place to register
country of origin...but there was no place for family info or home town info.
Best regards,
Floyd
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Floyd,
I think your way forward has to be to double down on searching for all information you can find from American records, with the intent of finding enough key details that will allow you to potentially find verifiable links back in the original Irish church records.
As you have the US church marriage record from 18 Jan 1866, I would hope there is a findable civil record of the marriage which may contain more information. This may have parents names, which would be a major bonus.
Incidentally, I would suggest that you post some details of the marriage in Christopher and Samantha's FamilySearch records to support the marriage date and location. An image of the church record would be ideal or at least some details of the information that it contains. This will deter someone making changes in the future.
Christopher's 1900 trip may have additional findable documentation..... the trick is to find it. Both FamilySearch and Ancestry can be valuable here. Also, the 1851 initial immigration may have more that one record associated with it. These records can contain different pieces of information, so there is hope that more can be found from that 1851 initial entry.
I find it valuable to put all the details that you can into FamilySearch. This can both help the automated search routines point out relevant records, more of which is being added constantly, and also can give enough detail that will prompt other people to add bits of the puzzle that they may possess.
Best regards, John.
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John,
Excellent advice.
I will give it my best shot...as they say.
Regards,
Floyd
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I have a bit of new information on this topic.
Christopher was born in 1932 in Derry and immigrated to the Port of NYC
on 22 Feb. 1851 at the age of 19.
Per the Town Clerk of the Village of Philmont, where he resided when he passed
(31 May 1912, his father's name is shown as Charles. His mother's name is shown
as "unknown ".
Any was to track his baptism given this information ???
Hopeful,
Floyd
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Minor correction:
Per the Town Clerk of the Village of Philmont, where he resided when he passed
(31 May 1912), his father's name is shown as Charles. His mother's name is shown
as "unknown ".
Any way to track his baptism given this information ???
Floyd
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