How do you post an illegitimate child in the tree who was raised by their grandfather as his daughte
Grandfather was left a widow with his 11 children. He raised them alone. His daughter had an illegitimate child and this child was raised by him as well. (Not sure if there was a legal adoption?) The child didn't know that their "sister" was in actuality their mother. How do we list this child on the tree? As his granddaughter? or his daughter as he was either adoptive father / guardian for the life of the child. Sensitive issue for descendants as they have grown up thinking that the grandfather was the father...
Thanks for your help!
Susanne
Beste Antwort
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Susanne,
There are different ways you can do this.
- You can list her with her mother, no father.
- You can list her with her grandfather and then put notes in describing her as his granddaughter and the reasons listing her there.
- With there be a sensitive issue involved, I would personally list her as a child of his and at some later date put in the explanation, if you feel that wouldn't offend the family. We had a similar situation in my family. The person who was being raised by someone else did learn who the real parent was, but was happy with who she considered her mother. No one in the family ever changed it on the records. I hope this helps you.
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Antworten
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@Susanne Skabelund ESPECIALLY if ANY of the 11 biological children of the father, OR the out-of-wedlock daughter of one of his daughters, is still alive, this is a very sensitive situation, and not likely to be one where an appropriate short answer can or should be provided in an open forum such as this. Some (among many) possible considerations follow.
Remember that living persons can be entered into FamilySearch and NOT be viewable by anyone other than the person who entered the information -- but when they become deceased in FamilySearch then anyone else can see that record. And that could be problematic, depending on how many generations back you're talking about. Even if all 12 of the original children raised by the grandfather (11+1) are deceased, there are still children of those children, and that presents some very sensitive issues if any of those still living (and maybe even an additional generation beyond, if they remember Grandpa and the sister/mother).
Perhaps (and ONLY offered as one consideration among many possibilities), those that actually know the circumstances could have a family meeting to decide if it's "time" (as if there's ever an easy or right "time") to bring such things out in the open. If such a meeting takes place, it would likely be wise to agree up front that there will be no sharing of the family secret unless all involved in the discussion are in full agreement. And then the proper entries could be made in FamilySearch or other family records IF everyone finally knows the facts and are in agreement.
Even if someone does enter them into FamilySearch, and enters them with incorrect (even if well-meaning) information, perhaps it should then be left to future generations to correct the record IF or when the impact on descendants would not potentially impact anyone to a highly significant degree.
The technically correct answer is that everyone should be entered with their biological parents - if available - and then notes provided to explain any questions that might arise. Also, relationships can also be specified, such as biological vs. adoptive parent, etc. HOWEVER, that's only the technically correct answer. There are, as you say, extremely sensitive personal issues involved, especially if the 12 children are still living, and even children of those 12 children, at minimum. Certainly, a family meeting of those that do know could be considered, but it may be wise to take NO action without full agreement by those involved in the discussion. Until all living persons directly affected by the circumstances are aware of the facts, inappropriate disclosure could be very hurtful. And FamilySearch is a publicly available source - so keep that in mind. Family relationships and personal emotional sensitivities certainly should be of higher value at this point than genealogical technicalities on paper or in a database.
Remember that according to Church beliefs, the involved people and the Lord will ultimately decide the eternal relationships in a manner that will be both right and understandable by all involved.
--Chris
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This post is being reconsidered by the author.
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Original response deleted.
--Chris
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Thank you for that response. I have not lived anything close to your experience. I do apologize for the discomfort I caused you. That was not my intent.
yes you are correct in your cautious approach to passing on information that could be unsettling.
You also are correct in your observation that this is certainly not the forum for discussing how things should be handled in someone else’s family.
Indeed, I have no way of knowing the family dynamics of that family.
The original question was about how to manage the software to reflect the information a user has.
I didn’t even answer that question. I reacted rather cavalierly to your response. That was wrong. I should have acted better. I’m sorry for my actions.
I going to remove my initial response. I’m not sure how this works and I want to be sure you see this. Please let me know when you have read this. I will delete what I can.
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@Willis Whitlock I just deleted the original content of my original response to you, as you essentially did with your first post in this thread by modifying it as you did. I agree - neither of those two well-intended responses needs to remain. But perhaps your subsequent response to me, and this one back to you, could be helpful to further illustrate how people need to be very thoughtful (even prayerful) before making actual decisions on disclosure of information in sensitive questions. The original question illustrates one of those really tough questions without any quick, easy answer. You and I are clearly on the same team on that one!
And PLEASE be aware that no apology is necessary - you did not cause me any personal discomfort at all - just concern that the family in question might have considerable discomfort if it wasn't handled sensitively based on answers received in this forum.
My personal situation is simple fact, even if the circumstances weren't what I would have preferred. I've lived with it for well over half a century, and as someone I admire often says, "It is what it is." It's simply my history, and I fortunately didn't have to be surprised by it because I lived through it knowingly. I used it only to serve as a real-world example of how things COULD be quite different if facts were unknown and suddenly came to light years or even decades after the fact by the "simple" act of posting a source that could disclose very sensitive information in recent generations. Five or six generations back, we can smile and even chuckle at some of the messes created "back then" - because we weren't directly affected. But if someone's personal direct relationships are entirely disrupted by new and contrary facts, it can be highly emotional. Again, in my case, I was fully aware of all that was going on due to being well into my teens when it occurred - so no surprises. So, fortunately there was no impact by suddenly learning new information that destroyed an entire lifetime of beliefs about my relationship to others.
As a matter of genealogical source fact that may be helpful to others reading this thread, many people aren't even aware that an adoption produces two different birth certificates - the original with birth parents, and a later amended one that LOOKS as though the parents are both birth parents, with no indication of it NOT being the original (except for the easily missed fact that the date of the certificate itself corresponds to the time of the adoption, not the time of the birth). At least that's how it's handled in many states, mine being one of them. (I don't know how adoptions AT birth are handled, so this is not to imply application to those situations.) But with later adoptions, the effect is to see a birth certificate that looks every bit like any other birth certificate, and it would be fully understandable for people to simply accept what it says as a factual source as if both parents are birth parents - unless they happened to notice the date at the bottom of the certificate, and questioned why it was issued so late. The problems could arise from people seeing two DIFFERENT birth certificates with different parents, but looking like they are for the same child. I can only imagine what my descendants would think, seeing both of my birth certificates, if I didn't also provide a full explanation in my personal history! I can laugh about that, but in other cases it may be far from laughable.
The original is sealed by a court, and cannot (legally) be obtained by anyone unless there is a new court order. But others may still have in their personal possession a copy of the true original that was issued at the time of birth, and without the full history, that could cause considerable confusion for genealogical as well as family history purposes if suddenly entered into the public record. And if it was during the lifetime of some of those directly affected by immediate family relationships with the person(s) in question, that could really cause some deep heartache if not handled sensitively and thoughtfully.
Professionally, I've seen some of those results, and they're heart breaking sometimes! DNA results are now providing some of those massive surprises, contrary to the lifelong beliefs of the DNA report recipients. Yes, it's simply fact, but sometimes discretion is helpful when we've got the option. That was my only concern, as it clearly is yours as well. Again, my situation was only used to illustrate how mere posting of sources could become a significant problem in recent and very sensitive situations.
No harm intended on either side, no offense taken. Thanks for the explanation! 😁
--Chris
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Just a thought... How was the child listed on the census records? Maybe he did adopt the child and it is reflected on the document.
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Thank you all for your input! I appreciate all the thoughtful consideration you've included.
Best regards,
Susanne
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Thank you. Will send this information on to the woman I'm helping. We discussed, and I believe she has decided to go with what you have listed in #3.
I appreciate your help!
Susanne
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Thank you for asking. When I looked at what I had done about a similar situation, I learned that one of the sons died a few years ago. We also had a similar situation, but it was longer ago and I didn't have to deal with hurt feelings. My great grandfather's daughter had two children by a man that she was married to at one point. I think perhaps the boys were born after the divorce. Their grandfather raised them as his own. But by the time the boys were grown, they knew the truth and we're fine with it and open. Young cousins the same ages as the boys new as well, but not all their adult siblings/aunt's and uncles knew, so I think there were some issues.
I knew one of the two, and I listed him as the adopted child of his grandparents and the child of his biological parents. And just to make this more fun, his grandfather changed the boys' names. So when I listed him as a son of his biological parents I used their name for him and left explanations. As I look now, I see someone changed the relationships. I am confused because the change seems to be what I thought I had done. If you want to see an example, James Kelly Hawes LH58-2GS is the grandfather's PID.
I think Shannon Wilcox's advice is good.
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