Translation Request: Translation of Russian-written Birth Record of suspected sibling of my Grandfa

KElgert

Dear Community members,

Pauline Elwira Elgert (Birth:  1871, Dobiegniewo, , Russia Poland; Death:  Unknown) 

Russian to English translation is needed; accuracy of names of parents, witnesses and Godparents, and their associated ages, and places and dates of birth/residence is essential!  Questions, contact me before proceeding.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Kelgert

Scan 13; Entry # 40

https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/jednostka/-/jednostka/25144418?_Jednostka_delta=20&_Jednostka_resetCur=false&_Jednostka_cur=1&_Jednostka_id_jednostki=25144418

Eppich Maria

Birth record No. 40, Scan No. 13, Duninow, Evangelical-Augsburg Parish, of Paulina Elwira Elgert, born in Dobiegniewo on the 19th March 1871, christened on the 20th March 1871, daughter of Friedrich Elgert, a laborer from Dobiegniewo, 24 years old, and of his wife, Adolphina, born Jops, 21 years old.  Witnesses: Piotr Jops, a landowner fromKolonia Glowa, 44 years old, and Christian Kuzel, a landowner fromKolonia Glowa.  Godparents: the first witness and Euphrosina Elgert, a maiden from Dobiegniewo.

Eppich Maria

Please consider Glowinska Kolonia, instead of Glowa, it is nolonger on the map.

KElgert

Good afternoon Eppich Maria,

Thank you for your translation! I accept your recommendation for changing from Glowa to Glowinska Kolonia. Is Kolonia Glowa in the same county as Dobiegniewo? Please check the spelling of Christian Kuzel.

Thank you again for your help!

All the best,

Klaus

KElgert

Good evening Eppich Maria,

A followup question: is Glowinska Kolonia is the same county as Glowa/Kolonia Glowa?

Thank you,

Klaus

Eppich Maria

Glowa Kolony is too far away. It might have been closer and then the name changed, as I could not find it near Dobiegniewo. The witnesses could not have traveled long distance to be at the christening of this infant. Check pilot.pl or mapa.szukacz.pl to identify any similar place near Dobiegniewo.

katerinaschmidt

Hi KElgert,

I would recommend requesting an online consultation to get help with research strategies for determining if the mothers in question are the same person or are different people (which may not be possible using translations of the documents you have provided). In Fryderyk's birth it still says that the child is born of the lawful wife of Friedrich Elgert, so there is no indication that this is an out of wedlock marriage.

In regard to your request for a verbatim translation, I believe you already have all of the genealogical information from the record. The only information that would be left out of Maria's translation would be boiler-plate wording and the time of the child's birth. Determining more about the mother/mothers will require more research in additional record types.

Here is the link to scheduling an online consultation:
https://www.familysearch.org/en/family-history-library/online-consultations

I hope this helps with progressing your research.

KElgert

Good morning Eppich Marie,

I agreed with your explanations/comments; I will include them as part of the translation.

WOW!! The translations, which I briefly assessed. I comment, could you please do a verbatim translation of Fryderyk Wilhelm Elgert (Birth:  18 Nov 1875, Dobiegniewo,  , Russia Poland; Death:  30 Dec 1957, Cincinnati, Ohio, USA). Reason: His mother is different from all the other siblings (including my grandfather); my discussions/debates with others in Ancestry and relatives (they suggest half-brother), range from Record error to an out-of-wedlock event. So, a complete accurate translation is necessary. How would this type an event, if correct, be handled back-in-the-day?

Sorry about the redo; however, your expertise is needed!

Thank you,

Klaus

Eppich Maria

Hi Klaus, I agree it is Christian Kizel, and the mother of the infant is still Adolphina, born Jops, 21 years old.

You may find it helpful using typeitRussian typing most letters except unique for Russian alphabet, that you may select from they Russian keyboard. Afterwards you may use GoogleTranslate Russian to English. Try it, you may like it.

KElgert

Good morning Eppich Maria,

Thank you for “Kizel” change; there are many Kiesels in my Ancestry Tree.

Thanks for the app suggestion, I will check it out.

I await your verbatim translation of Fryderyk Wilhelm Elgert Birth Record; and the last of this series of Elgert siblings, Albert Elgert.

Thank you again for your excellent support,

Klaus

KElgert

Good afternoon katerinaschmid,

**Just a reminder, I don’t know who will be the translator, I assume Maria; but there is one more Birth Record, that of Albert Elgert (from the list I provided), which needs to be translated, please.**  Once completed, I will conclude the evaluations!

Thank you for your comments/suggestion!

After almost 6 years of searching for my paternal grandfathers birthplace, I found it in his Death Certificate, which took me 14 months to receive it from the Stadt Espelkamp Standesamt = more than 7 years of searching!  Sorry, no more whining!

[Found Fryderyk Wilhelm Elgert Birth Record in 2 Feb 2024; it’s been a “Sideshow” ever since!]  

I have Direct Ancestor/DNA connection to Fryderyk Wilhelm Elgert, Ludwik (Louis) Elgert, and Michael Elgert; and Common DNA Ancestor/DNA Connection to Adam Elgert.  I submitted a detailed 7-page, single-spaced typed discussion to a genealogist that supplied most the LDS “locked” files of this region of Poland.  Despite the strong suggestive evidence for the 5 brothers Fryderyk, Ludwik, Adam, Michael, Gustaw, the response was “…hesitant.”  I believe with everyone’s help I have moved from the suggestive to proven.  We did agree on Fryderyk’s mother, “His mother is referenced as Ernestyna Jabs, which is a record error.  That combination does not appear anywhere else. Fryderyk and Adolfina had children before and after 1875.  So, most likely the Fryderyk born in 1875 is the son of Adolfina.”  Any thoughts?  Plus thank you for your insightful comment, “In Fryderyk's birth, it still says that the child is born of the lawful wife of Friedrich Elgert, so there is no indication that this is an out of wedlock marriage.”  The Superintendent that signed-off on the Records appears to be the same for the preceding birth, Fryderyk Wilhelm’s birth, and following birth; he does not raise any concerns.  Drop my verbatim translation request.  Ok, Enough!  

Starting at the beginning of this year, I started the search for Gorki; I had their Marriage Record [found my Grandmother’s Birth Record many years ago], which confirmed my suspicions and provided the needed parish, which in turn contained Gorki, which had birth records including Adam Elgert’s Birth Record.  His parents are recorded as Fryderyk Elgert and Adolfina (Jabs) Elgert!!  

Yes, Michael Elgert's Birth Record is yet to be found; however, a resulting timeline of where the family is living based by using birth records, one could search any parishes the family was located in at the birth of the preceding sibling and the sibling that followed Michael's birth (Born: 10 Sep 1881[?], Plotz, Russia Poland; Death:  11 Mar 1972, USA).  Any suggestions? 

You and three other FamilySearch Community Translation Genealogists’ have provided the proof that supports my Grandfather Adam Elgert’s inclusion into the Fryderyk Elgert and Adolfina (Jabs) Elgert family Tree!  Thank you all for sharing your expertise beyond the translating, it brings life to the ancestors = excellent jobs!  It transforms a list of names, their dates of birth, marriage and death, and locations where those events happened—it brings insight into their lives.  I am sure that I will be submitting other records for translating.  

Next step is to merge-with-duplicate Fryderyk Wilhelm, Ludwik, Adam and Michael from the wrong Ancestry Tree parent-association to the correct one. Yikes!

I await your reply.

All the best,

Klaus

Eppich Maria

Translated from Russian:

Micr. 008027539 Image 671 of 1662

Birth Record No. 122, Gostynin, Evangelical Parish, of Michael Elgert, born in Huta Szulecka on the 10th September 1881, christened on the 14th September 1881, son of Friedrich Elgert, a laborer from Huta Szulecka, 30 years old, and of his wife, Adolfina, born Jabs, 32 years old.  Witnesses: Ferdynand Linnert, a laborer, 33 years old, and Szymon Bukowski, a landowner, 56 years old, both from Huta Szulecka.  Godparents: Ferdynand Linnert, and Florentyna Bukowska from Huta Szulecka.

Huta Szulecka was an ironworks colony owned by Szulecki. Google for Huta Szulecka with Wikipedia. Gostynin is 22 km or about 14 miles from Dobiegniewo. Check pilot.pl or mapa.szukacz.pl to locate those places. Download the map, X the ads, click on Ukryj on the right next to Hotele to eliminate all H's which are hotel advertisements. Select Gostynin on the map and move mouse to Dobiegniewo, by Vistula river without pressing on the mouse, you will see distance in the right lower corner in the red box.

Sorry, but I am not able to post the scan of this record in Polish Community. It is available in Familysearch Library in Salt Lake City, due to restrictions by the archives which allowed the Library to scan those records. You may try to access it in Familysearch Center in your neighborhood, but it may still be restricted there.

KElgert

Good afternoon Maria,

HAPPY BIRTH TO ME!!! Amazing, months of looking on my part disappeared!

A questions/comments: The nearest FamilySearch Center is roughly 35 miles from me and as you mentioned it may still be restricted there. (I will called them.) You indicated Image info; if I am logged into FamilySearch, may/can I look at that image? Was his birth registered at Nowa Wieś? I will definitely do your suggested Google search! Thanks for sharing your expertise!!!!

I await your reply.

All the best,

Klaus

Eppich Maria

Good afternoon Klaus,

I am glad you appreciate getting translation of this birth record.

To get the copy of the original birth record of Michael Elgert, you may have other options: if you know someone in Salt Lake City, that person can come to FamilySearch Library, copy this record on a flash drive and send it to you, or you may contact Archiwum Państwowe w Płocku, their email is: sekretariat@plock.ap.gov.pl and for a reasonable fee they may send you scan of this record, You may write to them in English, and please state that you live in USA.

I am glad I was able to find this record for you. Enjoy your research.

Eppich Maria

Klause,

Please note that the birth record of Michael Elgert was recorded in Gostynin, Evangelical Parish, not in Nowa Wies, Evangelical Parish.

KElgert

Thank you Maria,

Sorry, but I can’t find Huta Szulecka using Google. Is it near Gostynin? Or some other larger city, so, I can zoom in to see the smaller Huta Szulecka? Trying to find location as it relates to his older brother, my grandfather Adam Elgert, born in Gorki, as found by Hailey.

I appreciate any suggestions!

Klaus

LaRue Turner

https://www.familysearch.org/research/places/?pagesize=20&text=Huta%20Szulecka

KElgert

Good evening Larue Turner,

Thank you for your Weblink; however, I can't follow the link info. It shows me Huta, where is the Szulecka? Since they registered an infant in Gostynin, needs to be fairly close. Maria indicated to use Google/Wikipedia.

I am lost. Please help.

All the best,

Klaus

Eppich Maria

When I searched on google.com for Huta Szulecka Gostynin, I got this answer:

Primary Metal Manufacturing Companies in Mazowieckie, Gostynin:

KIM KRZYSZTOF SOLKA I SŁAWOMIR SZULECKI SPÓŁKA JAWNA ... Gostynin, Mazowieckie Poland. Sales Revenue ($M): ... Huta Mazowszanska 

Huta Szulecka was the old name after the owner of the company, probably Slawomir Szulecki, later it might have been changed or eliminated.