Knonau ZH - assorted sources - 1600-1640 - Urmi - summary

WSeelentag

@Kent Gardiner

The first contributions to Urmi im Kanton Zürich are open for comments (here in the community, please) - and I have a few questions myself:

1) I have stated bravely "Only one plausible baptism was found - the Knonau baptismal record 10.11.1605." This implies that the period from (at least) 1600 until 1610 has been checked for alternatives: has that be done? If not (and if you prefer) one possibility would be that you send me copies of these pages (how many would that be - about 20?) by email and I would extract all Urmi baptisms.

2) Likely out of question is to send me all pages of a longer period (e.g. 1584-1617) to extract all of Ulrichs children and narrow down a possible marriage date. I guess this will have to wait until I have a chance to visit a research centre and check online myself.

3) If the assumption that Vronegg's father Urlrich was the Ulrich getting married as a widower Jan 1617 is correct, his first wife Margreth Zürcher must have died before that - have you by any chance looked for that yet?

4) Do you have any comments on the texts right now - or additions?

Kent Gardiner

WSeelentag. I am amazed at the work you do! I copied a lot from your chart to the website.

1. Just sent via email 1600-1610 births for Knonau.
2. I can send the rest of the births if you like. It only takes me a few minutes to do such a task.
3. Unfortunately there are no burials from 1552-1666. I looked at every page. None. Many births and some marriages.
4. The best chance we have is to find deaths and family groups is in Households. Some are alphabetized which is helpful. I can look for Margreth Zürcher there. I looked for Urmi in Households and couldn't find any. But I might have overlooked the name.
5. Question: So Margreth Zücher is most likely Vronegg's mother. If so she was raised by Margretha Walderin. I can look for Walderin and Zücher in the Households. Does that seem the best way forward?
6. Question: Is the reason you can't access these records is because Switzerland wants to sell the information and they asked FS to block your access to Switzerland's church records?

Thanks for all your work! I will be gone this afternoon but will be back this evening. KG

WSeelentag

1&2) Thank you for the copies of the Taufbuch 1600-1612: I have found only a single additional Urmi entry:

27.01.1602 Hans des Uli Urmi & Margreth Züricherin

As Hans was a legitimate child, the couple got married before 1602. If it is not much effort for you, could you send me the baptisms 1582 (gap with marriages after that) until 1599? We could then get some more evidence.

No other Urmi couple seems to have produced offspring during 1600 and 1612.

3&4) According to the catalogue death entries only begin in 1634:

pages 112-172: Taufen 1586-1634 (you had sent me pages 135-154)

pages 173-195: Taufen, Ehen und Tote 1634-1639

pages 270-274: Tote 1640-1666

So no chance to find a death prior to 1617 ☹. Bevölkerungsverzeichnisse (BV) beginn 1634 and won't help here either. However, we can explain that and why further research is hampered.

5) We won't find more about Margreth Zürcher in the BV - she was dead by 1634, and even if her parents were still alive and mentioned, Margreth wouldn't be as no longer living with them. For the same reason we wont find Margreth Walder mentioned with her parents - the only chance is to find her baptismal entry - but there may be more than just a single plausible one. Chances to find her burial are dim with only 5 pages for 1640-1666 (unless very small script).

6) When the records were filmed, the agreement was that films would only be accessible in the History Centres - not sold or handed out on loan. Noone thought about anything like the internet then. In analogy, to make the digitized films available in History Centres only, was considered to be covered by the agreement. To make them available freely would require a new agreement - with some cantons this happened - with others (like Zürich) not … don't ask me for their reasons.

WSeelentag

@Kent Gardiner

Thank you for the additional pages - will be evaluated in due course.

Whilst working on more pages in the Knonau baptismal registers it became clearer to me that (despite some coincidences by given names) there is no connection between the Urmi in Knonau and the Urner in Rifferswil. I have therefore renamed the topic accordingly.

BTW - looks like the software has been fixed: sequence of comments chronologically "correct" again 😊.

Kent Gardiner

https://community.familysearch.org/en/profile/WSeelentag I completely agree. Sorry for the U-Turn or the misdirection. KG