Entlebuch LU - emigration - 1904 - Portmann - oo Oechslin
Immigration Help
I am at a very dead end and need help with possible ideas. I have ancestors who left Switzerland in April 1904. I have their ship record from when they made it to New York USA :
Line 16 Hans Oechslin and line 17 Mary Portmann are my ancestors. It appears they were not married before they emigrated. I'm hoping to find Mary's parents. I'm trying to retrace and find anywhere her parents may be mentioned. I know they emigrated from Switzerland up to Antwerp Belgium and from their sailed to the US. The town that lists her last place of residency (Entlebuch) doesn't have a record of her. Hans last town of residency (Rotrkuez) has him listed, but not her. Any ideas of where I can look? What records she might have that would list parents?
Kommentare
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Hi, This is most likely the person you are looking for: FamilySearch ID: L4MR-L37. This person is listed on the same ancestry manifest that you reference above. Lots of research has gone into Hans and his family.
Rotrkuez is 11 miles north east of Lucerne.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/about/L4MR-L37
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I am not subscribed to ancestry - consequently I cannot view your document: you could try to "share" the image - see below.
We already have discussed Oechlsin - see :
is your Hans Oechslin (this question) related to Gottfried Oechslin (1849-1877)? Gottfried has a son Johann Gottfried (born 1875) - is he the one emigrating in 1904?
Hans married (likely after emigration) Maria Portmann - her last residence Entlebuch (whom did you ask there?), which is canton Luzern. Portmann is a fairly common name in canton Luzern: Entlebuch is just one of 10 communities where Portmann have held citizenship since before 1800 … but Entlebuch is the first "best bet" on her place of citizenship. If that is the case, the Civil Registry Office in Wolhusen will have her in their database - question is if and under which conditions they will give you any information (depending on when Maria Portmann was born) due to Swiss privacy legislation. If you are a direct descendant you are entitled to get this information - but this may become complicated and expensive.
Recommendation: contact the office, give them as much information es a you have (date of birth would be extremely helpful!) and ask first if they can locate her in their register.
If not: ask if they can find out her place of citizenship (in 2004 a national register was introduced - but earlier records will only occasionally have been entered and be available online - online for these offices only).
If yes: ask what you have to do (and pay) to get a Familienschein.
If neither works, we may have to look at Hans Oechslin again: if he was a citizen of Schaffhausen - and got married (even after emigration) his marriage should be registered with the office in Schaffhausen (provided it was reported, as it should have been).
Good luck - and let us know how you are getting on - Wolf
BTW: The Entlebuch church records (until end of 1875) have been filmed by familysearch and seem to have been indexed. So if you know her date of birth (and it is prior to 1876), try searching this first.
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@WSeelentag The share link:
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This may be helpful in reading the documents:
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Thank you each for your responses.
@Kent Gardiner You found that easily! This is the Johann Gottfried Oechslin I have been researching. I'm hoping to find more about his wife.
@WSeelentag Yes, this is the son of Gottfried Oechslin. The only child he had as far as I can tell.
I reached out to the Citizen office of Wolhusen back in September 2023. I thought the birth date I had was correct (passed down through children as 15 December 1882), but they could not find anything on that date. Mary Portmann is then too popular a name for them to just select someone. They sent me to the Lucerne Archives who I emailed and asked about emigration records that may have been generated. No results on that either.
I have someone who is looking at the Lucerne archive since she was born after 1876. He found many potentials (64+). We have been narrowed it down (based on if they married or died in Switzerland). There's one family I think it is (Anton Portmann and Katherina Haas). When we looked into getting the Familienschein for that family, they said there was no Maria listed. We can guess that she emigrated, but still don't know if this is the correct Maria.
I have also previously contacted Schaffhausen about Johann. They said that after the death of his father and remarriage of his mother there isn't any additional information about him. I had asked if they had anything about Maria too. But I didn't ask specifically about a marriage record.
I'm assuming part of the lack is the possibility that they left with poor family relationships (just a guess). Mary Portmann was very pregnant when they were on the boat. They ported in New York April 1904 and had their baby in Wisconsin May 1904. So they may have cut ties with Switzerland when they left. But I don't know. It's just a guess with how hard they've been to find. Most especially Mary. I also cannot find any marriage record in Switzerland or USA, so there's the potential that will list parents but I can't find the record.
I know this is a bunch of information and there may not be more to do, but I would love any ideas.
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"I have also previously contacted Schaffhausen about Johann. They said that after the death of his father and remarriage of his mother there isn't any additional information about him. I had asked if they had anything about Maria too. But I didn't ask specifically about a marriage record."
I had another look at the Harder collection: on the page of his parents Johann Gottfried (b.1875) is given a reference number - but no data are to be found: this may indicate that he didn't report back to Switzerland ☹.
On the passenger list Marie Portmann is mentioned as "intended wife" - so they will not have married in Switzerland.
I'll send you a PN regarding research in Luzern.
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"I reached out to the Citizen office of Wolhusen back in September 2023. I thought the birth date I had was correct (passed down through children as 15 December 1882)."
What exactly do you mean with "Citizen Office" - the Civil Registry Office (Zivilstandsamt)?
If Maria Portmann was born in Entlebuch (or anywhere within the region covered by Wolhusen) she must have been registered there - Geburtsregister A - irrespective of her place of citizenship.
If Maria Portmann's parents were citizens of Entlebuch, Maria's birth must be registered, irrespective of her place of birth - Geburtsregister B.
If her birth is not registered in either, either the date is incorrect or she wasn't born in Entlebuch or her parents have not been citizens there (or something went seriously wrong) … which will make further research complicated ☹.
In the passenger list (1904) her age is given as 24 - born around 1880 - doesn't quite fit 15.12.1882 - whilst her husband's-to-be age (29 for someone born 1875) is quite close.
"I have someone who is looking at the Lucerne archive since she was born after 1876. He found many potentials (64+)."
64+ over which time period and in which parts of canton Luzern? 64+ for Entlebuch within 1875 and 1885 sounds quite a lot.
"There's one family I think it is (Anton Portmann and Katherina Haas). When we looked into getting the Familienschein for that family, they said there was no Maria listed."
On which source is your assumption (Anton Portmann and Katherina Haas) based - if no daughter Maria is listed in the Civil Registry System for these parents?
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What exactly do you mean by "Citizen Office" - the Civil Registry Office?
Yes, I meant the Civil Registry Office in Wolhusen. Based on the date and location I was given, there was no information.
64+ over which time period and in which parts of canton Lucerne? 64+ for Entlebuch within 1875 and 1885 sounds quite a lot.
My friend then looked from the years 1880-1886 in all of Lucerne and found many Maria Portmann's. The one I am suspecting came from that search. She was entered in Entlebuch B and Roomos A
On which source is your assumption (Anton Portmann and Katherina Haas) based - if no daughter Maria is listed in the Civil Registry System for these parents?
From the birth record found in the broad search conducted by my friend. This potential Maria Portmann's birthday is 13 December 1881 (close to the date I was given 15 December 1882). They were then unable to find a marriage or death record for her. But she does also disappear from the family sheet. So we have no information to dispute it's her, but no information to verify it's her.
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"The one I am suspecting came from that search. She was entered in Entlebuch B and Romoos A."
So she was born in Romoos and her parents were citizens of Entlebuch. 13.12.1881 is closer to the estimated year of birth based on her age in 1904 - which is no proof, of course, that she's your ancestor.
"They were then unable to find a marriage or death record for her."
Which would fit an emigration and subsequent lost contact (similar to Hans Oechslin).
"But she does also disappear from the family sheet."
If her birth was registered, she cannot "disappear" from the Familienschein (of her parents) - there is just no further info on her whereabouts, i.e. there will be no Familienschein with her as wife and mother.
"So we have no information to dispute it's her, but no information to verify it's her."
Correct - right now just likelihood. The next (but very time consuming) step would be to check all the other potential candidates: are there marriage or death records? However, I have to admit that this research might not be feasible in this time period.
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Thank you for these ideas and clarifying the information I have. I will try the course of ruling out the others.
I know she doesn't have a passport from Entlebuch from that date she left. Do you know of the normal path of emigration or if any other documents would have been generated when she left for Antwerp or on the ths US?
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Both the required procedure and the surviving documentation will depend a lot on the canton - and Luzern is not my area of expertise. You have a contact in the region: O.F. will be in a much better situation than me to answer that.
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