Hirzel ZH - Bevölkerungsverzeichnis - 1689 - Hirzel & Huber - Hans & Maria
Hirzel 1689 Heinrich Landis b 1630 family, Church Record film 008014133 page 166
I wish I knew how to search church records without having to walk through years of records by hand. I knew the document was there. It took me four hours to find this Heinrich but it was well worth it. I have found other church records on my Sidler line but this is only one of two on the Jenta line so far. Is Heinrich a wagon maker and a farmer? This is one of the more interesting documents I have found.
Second document:
Kommentare
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So this is from a Bevölkerungsverzeichnis (population register) designated 1689: the problem with these years is that data are not necessarily for that year: these registers were compiled in longer intervals - e.g. for Hirzel in 1682 / 1689 / 1698 - and the year quoted is not always the first year. EDB tells us that the parents got married in Dec. 1668. Let's assume the first (surviving) child was born 1669 (possibly a few years later) the data would represent about 1685 (possibly a few years later, e.g. 1789 - which would fit Caspar, born 1875, being 14 years old.). So the father Hans would be born about 1633.
EDB also tells us Hans Landis was a Wagner, and his wife Maria Huber originated "aus dem Boden" … there is a Hamlet Boden just South of Hirzel (amongst several other locations of this name). The Bevölkerungsverzeichnis also mentions "agric(ola)" - so he likely was also a farmer - with being a wagon maker just his specialisation, helping other farmers with problems of this kind.
Other information usually found in these registers are what books are kept in the household, and what stage of "religious education" each individual has reached. Unfortunately this includes loads of abbreviations I am not familiar with … if you agree I would therefore post this question to Geneal-Forum and ask for help.
Possibly also @Daniel57704 can help (?).
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Excellent information!!! On my Sidler line the Pastor put a lot more information into the record and Peter was able to decipher what they meant. He spent a lot of time studying the stages of religious education in Ettenhausen. He loved this type of inquiry.
I'm not sure who you want to post the question on the forum? You are me? Of course I'm fine with you posting but will do so if you want me to have the practice.
Since I posted this today I found someone who spent a lot of time compiling the census information. But after all that painstakingly work they were unable to find Heinrich's death. I found Hans Heinrich's death record in 1701 which fits with 1730. I also found another death entry in 1712 which about fits with a birth date of 1633. Here is the marriage and census info:
Married(1) Anna Ruttimann 11/6/1655[4] born 1635-1667 (unverified by me) Children; Hans Jacob b 1657, Hans 1659-1721, Barbara 1661, Hans Heinrich 1662 and Catharina 1665.
Married(2) Maria Huber 12/8/1668[5] born 1648-1694 (unverified by me)
Census:
1670 Hirzel census shows Hans Landis and Maria Huber in Hirzel with Barbara, Hans Heinrich, and Catharina[6]
1678 Hirzel census shows Hans Landis(46), Maria Huber(33) in Hirzel with Barbara(18), Hans Heinrich(15), Felix(4), Caspar(2), and Verena[7]
1682 Hirzel census shows Hans Landis(52), wagner, and wife Maria Huber(39) in Hirzel with children Felix(10), Caspar(8), Verena(5) and Jorg(2)[8]
1689 Hirzel census shows Hans Landis(56) and wife Maria Huber(46) in Brunnen with children Felix(16), Caspar(14), Verena(12), Jorg(9), Susana(7), Barbara(5), and Hans Jagli(1).[9]
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Hi, I just found a legend which tells a little more about what the abbreviations used on the Bevölkerungsverzeichnis mean. I posted it to Hans Heinrich Landis' page. Also found the 1682 Census. I will look at this in more detail when I get back home tonight. Thanks for all you are doing! 😊
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That list is very useful! I have tried to translate most of it to English - see https://www.geneal-forum.com/phpbb/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=127376#p127376 - and have asked for help with the interpretation for a few bits.
Once this can (hopefully) be completed, I'll post the Landis record itself - with partial transcription - and likely a few more questions.
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Abolutely wonderful!!! I love what you are doing! You bring the document to life!!!😄
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To be honest - you are getting me a bit confused: we have 4 Bevölkerungsverzeichnisse - all for Hans Landis and Maria Huber - but who are his parents? In these records we have as calculated years of birth
name...........1670...1678...1682...1689...baptised
Hans Landis.....?…...1632....1630….1633
Maria Huber.....?…...1645….1643….1643
Barbara.....,,,,....?.…..1660
Hans Heinrich..?…...1663
Catharina…....1664
Felix..........……….…....1674….1672....1673
Caspar....……......…....1676....1674….1675...05.04.1675
Verena......…………..........?…...1677….1677
Jörg...............……….……....…...1680....1680
Susanna.............…...…………..….....…..1682
Barbara..............……….………….......….1684
Hans Jagli............……………….…......….1688
But you are talking about a Hans Heinrich as father - and the death certificate is for Heinrich. From the above list we would estimate (with some safety margin) this Hans to be born between 1629 and 1634 - during this time span we have 3 x Hans and 4 x Hans Heinrich (no Heinrich) baptised in Hirzel. From the records known to me (uploaded on your web page) I cannot tell which baptism is the correct one. Have you got any additional information - or am I missing something?
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WSeelentag I have been confused as well. No doubt my confusion has added to your confusion. Here is what we know:
On Hans's 1630 birth page there are two entries for a Hans Heinrich Landis and one for Hans Landis.
The 1630 birth record says Hans Landis
The 1655 marriage to Anna Rütimanin says Hans Landis
The 1668 marriage to Maria Huber says Hanns Landis.
The 1682 Bevölkerungsverzeichnis says Hans Landis.
The 1689 Bevölkerungsverzeichnis says Hans Landis
I think the name of Caspar's father is definitely Hans Landis and not Hans Heinrich Landis. I have revised Hans Landis b 1630 web page to reflect this.
Part of the confusion is that Hans Landis apparently had a child with his first wife, Anna Rütimanin, named Hans Heinrich born 1662 according to FS……..
1670 Hirzel censusshows Hans Landis and Maria Huber in Hirzel with Barbara, Hans Heinrich, and Catharina[6]1678 Hirzel censusshows Hans Landis(46), Maria Huber(33) in Hirzel with Barbara(18), Hans Heinrich(15), Felix(4), Caspar(2), and Verena[7]the 1670 and 1678 census entries appear to be the Hans Heinrich born in 1662 to Anna.
Hans also had a child named Hans Heinrich born 1672 according to FS. This Hans Heinrich born to Maria Huber was the twin to Felix Landis. He most likely died in infancy.
I found the other two census entries and posted them on Hans Landis born 1630's web page.
Sorry for the confusion. I'm learning and we will sort his all out. All the best, Kent
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From the census data we have three estimated years of birth for Hans: 1630 / 1632 / 1633.
In the baptismal registers we find three "potential" baptisms of a Hans: 05.09.1630 / 21.11.1630 / 29.12.1633. What makes you sure the one baptised 21.11.1630 is your ancestor?
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I have another comment on your data on https://www.gatheringgardiners.com/2024/05/hans-heinrich-landis-1630-1701.html:
2. Felix Schneider Landis b 1672 (twin)- 1739 m 1697 Rosena Witmer 1671-1730
Schneider is not a given name - most likely he was a Schneider = tailor.
What is the source for this marriage and where did it take place? There is no corresponding entry in EDB.
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WSeelentag In a rough way I have gone through all the censuses and added what I can in terms of what is written. I'm sure my abbreviations are not correct but I gave it a try. Translation needed as I am sure you know. See:
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As mentioned before - I will wait for corrections / comments on my translation of the list of abbreviations, before transcribing the Bevölkerungsverzeichnis with confidence.
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WSeelentag This is not my direct line and the information is new to me. The Landis family appear to be fairly active in finding records on FS. Descendants likely saw hints and attached them to their ancestor without translations or much thought. In any case I did look for Felix and Rosina's marriage, no such entry.
Of course I knew Schneider was a profession not a middle name. One of my favorite ancestors was Johannes Sidler, Schneider 1777 -1834.
I don't know if there is a way to verify Hans Landis' birth. I believe I found Hans' death record and put it in to be translated. The records don't have a lot of extra detail. That is the reason I was excited to see the Bevölkerungsverzeichnis. They have some interesting details that give a picture of what life was like for Caspar. As you stated they have to be taken with a grain of salt.
Caspar is an interest of mine and I'd like to verify what we can on his parents. I don't think we can clean up everything on this family in FS but we can tighten up Caspar, and his parents. I want to use your time wisely on key documents. All the best……😉
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There are earlier Bürgerregister of Hirzel: have you checked them? In Wetzikon often the spouse's name is mentioned with children - not so the case in the Hirzel records you have copied so far - you may want to check earlier ones.
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I have looked at some but need to do more. Good reminder. I need to find Hans' parents.
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