Needing an Opinion or Two
Hello,
I have come to several possible conclusions regarding my second great grandparents and their departure from Bohemia. I would like to know whether this makes sense or whether someone may have some additional insight. Their names were Vojtěch (Adalbert) Dolejší and Františka Augusta. In my research, I have found these to be two rare names. The only thing that I have been able to discover from their USA information is that they were from Bohemia. I also learned from Vojtěch's prison record (He killed his second wife.) was that he left home at age 21.
This is what I believe to be the birth certificate of Vojtěch:
He was born in Chlumec, parish of Purkarec, in southern Bohemia. He appeared to have picked up a copy of his birth certificate in 1880 and/or 1881. I believe that he traveled to the USA in 1880 and again in 1881. He may also have gotten married in that time period.
I believe that I have also found the birth record of Františka in Prague from 1858. I have not been able to figure out a link that will directly lead to the record, so I will include a screenshot here:
I have also found records for Františka's siblings, both birth records and marriage records. Each of their birth records cross references their marriage record and vice versa. The only thing cross referenced on Františka's record is the marriage information of her parents. There is no mention of her getting married or passing away. I believe that she and Adalbert eloped.
I have tried to find a marriage record for the couple. I have looked in Prague records, both Roman Catholic church records and civil records. I have looked in Purkarec records, as well as records for the surrounding parishes. I have also attempted to trace the couples' route from Prague or Chlumec to Bremen. I have probably searched over 100,000 marriage records without any luck.
This seems to be the couples' manifest when arriving in the USA:
They arrived in the USA on 19 Dec 1881.
Either:
- the couple were wed in Bohemia on their way to Bremen
- the couple were wed in Germany
- the couple were wed upon arriving in the USA
- the couple were never wed
I would appreciate hearing any other opinions on the matter. I stopped searching for their wedding record some time ago but will resume the search if someone has some new insights. Thank you and have a good day.
Sincerely,
Stephen
Kommentare
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I have found these to be two rare names
https://www.kdejsme.cz/prijmeni/Dolej%C5%A1%C3%AD/hustota/ (2184)
https://www.kdejsme.cz/prijmeni/Augusta/hustota/ (327)
To be honest, I have a different view on "rare" surname :-)
Both surnames can be found in various areas across Bohemia. It isn't easy to pick proper candidates without additional details.
I agree some clues support your theory, but this is overall too weak evidence.
The only rescue here is taking an autosomal DNA test and locating your relatives indirectly based on DNA matches.
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If your couple is the correct one: South Bohemia and Prague are quite distant locations. How they could meet?
The more likely theory is that Vojtěch was searching better livelihood in a larger city like Prague and they met together there. It is also possible they both were searching better place and met somewhere else. Quite recently I found a long-missing couple in Terezin fortress (those were being built these times and offered solid income, he was a carpenter, and she was a housemaid). There was also a boom of coal mines in several locations, but this was mainly for men, not women. Relocating both could explain missing wedding records, but I would still expect a note in the birth record that the record copy was made.
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I didn't mean that the surnames were rare, but the combination of the surname with the given name. I have encountered pockets of Dolejší families in my research, but very few individuals named Vojtěch Dolejší. The name of Františka Augusta seems to be even rarer.
My feeling is that Vojtěch was somewhat of a "loose cannon" as we say. (I'm not certain where you are from, so I don't know whether you are familiar with that term.) He left home at an age of about 21 (1877) to seek a better life in the big city (Prague). I believe that he had an older sister that left home earlier on, as she requested a copy of her birth record as well. I don't know where she wound up, but he may have followed her example. He could have met Františka in Prague and discussed a life together. They may have opted to go to the USA. He made the voyage by himself in 1880 to see what life would be like. He returned to Bohemia sometime that year. They left together for the USA the following year.
I am quite careful with my research, and not willing to add someone to my tree until I have conclusive evidence. I was very reluctant to accept their birth records without a marriage record. I was more willing to accept Vojtěch's birth record than Františka's. But after looking for their marriage record for nearly a year, I am fairly confident (possibly desperate?) in this conclusion. Here are just some of the parishes that I have searched for their marriage record:
(inclusive of all Prague Roman Catholic and civil records)
I was extremely fortunate in my Polish research that I was able to find relatives there based upon letters that my great grandmother received from her sister sixty years ago. I wrote a letter to the family in the village where the letters originated, and it wound up in the right hands. But this was a small village. Trying to find Dolejší/Augusta relatives anywhere in Czechia after 150 years to do a DNA test would be next to impossible. I do have some DNA matches on my maternal grandmother's side of the family, but these individuals have very small trees or no trees at all, with which to do a comparison. If I continue that part of my research, I am more likely to come up with a result on the Dolejší side as I find Prague records to be very difficult to navigate.
Thank you again for your assistance and your thoughts.
Sincerely,
Stephen
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Thanks a lot for this broader context.
I am sad to hear DNA has not so helpful so far. I believe you could get more from the data you have. But it depends on the testing company.
While e.g. Ancestry is a leader in the USA, it has low coverage in Europe. 23andMe is not well known here. FTDNA is known to have a small database and minimum profiles with a usable family tree. So MyHeritage is most often used here. Sometimes indirectly - people choose FTDNA kits, which allow them to reuse DNA samples for Y-DNA or mtDNA tests in the future and then upload their results to MH to get more matches (then eventually pay a fee for unlocking some additional features).
So if you have the DNA test from FTDNA, I would recommend uploading the result into MH. In the case of Ancestry, it would be beneficial to take a DNA test again, either FTDNA or MH.
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I did do the DNA testing through Ancestry.com. That site has not been very helpful with useful tips. I think that most people are only interested in where they come from rather than who they come from. I did manage to help out an individual on Ancestry.com who did not know who her father was. She was a DNA match of mine, so I tried to assist her. As it turns out, she is a second cousin of mine. I told her with pretty high confidence who I believed her father to be, but the only way to be certain was to check her DNA against one of her half-siblings. I was also able to contact a distant cousin of mine on my maternal grandmother's other side. Those ancestors originated from the western portion of Bohemia (the village of Kadešice and surrounding villages).
The MyHeritage site seems to have a larger European following, but people on that site just seem to grab whatever information they can, whether it is accurate or not.
I have been able to get some useful tips from the FamilySearch site. I found a brother of this particular Vojtěch Dolejší. I will have to see how far forward he has come with his data and possibly check a DNA connection there.
I will also look at the sites that you recommended. Maybe I'll give myself a little Christmas present with that.
Thank you again and have a good day.
Sincerely,
Stephen
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Load your DNA for free to MyHeritage and Gedmatch. You will have more matches.
Betseylee
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Thank you. It is already on both of those sites.
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- Prague (Praha) City Archives: https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Prague_(Praha)_City_Archives,_Czechiahttps://www.
- Prague City Archives helps: https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Prague_(Praha)_City_Archives,_Czechia
- Prague State Archives:
- https://ebadatelna.soapraha.cz/pages/IndexPage?0
- Prague State Archives helps: https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Prague_(Praha)_Regional_Archives,_Czechia
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Thank you again Betseylee. I have been to the Prague archives and have found some records. I was perusing these records in search of the marriage record of Vojtěch Dolejší. While performing this search, I found the marriage record of Františka Augusta's sister. From this record, I was able to find the birth record for Františka. This is the only means of discovering her existence in the country. I didn't continue to search because I was not certain whether this individual was my direct ancestor.
I save the links of the records that I find. The problem that I had with the Prague site is that I don't seem to be able to save the direct link to the record. I can only save screen shots of the records. The link that I save only takes me back to the homepage. This is what I remember, anyway.
I don't believe that I have read the How To Page on Family Search. I will check it out when I am ready to resume my search.
Thank you again and Happy Holidays.
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I would like to thank you both (Jan and Betseylee). Although I had looked at my DNA matches in the past, I had found few promising results. Just now, I did another search of my DNA matches on MyHeritage. Most of my matches had trees containing 30 people or less. I was not feeling very positive. When I arrived at page 6 (out of 7) of my matches, I found an individual with a larger tree who shared some Smart Matches with me. I looked at those matches and found four individuals who I had just researched on Monday. One of these matches was half-sister to Vojtěch Dolejší. This seems to indicate that my research with this part of the family (the Dolejší family) has not been a waste of time. I have sent this individual a note and will await a reply.
In the future, I will attempt to extend Františka Augusta's portion of the tree and see what happens. Happy Holidays.
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How cool. I always check the member trees on myHeritage because most Czechs use this site. I have found lots of matches for me. I am glad you found a match. I think they want to be found. Happy Holidays to you too.
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My links are at the top of the Czechia page under "Czechia Resource Links" which I created. https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/119261/czechia-group-resource-links#latest
Betseylee
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Thanks for the info you told me. These records are tough to read.
Betseylee
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