Hoping for some help on Andras Nota Birth Town
I am trying to figure out what town this is for Andras (Andy) Nota. I have a couple clues
Clue #1 The 1920 Census on Line 31 shows the Nota family. Look very closely on the place of birth you will see "Petroves" written on many entries of his family and other families on the same page. You will then see a correction of sometype that says "SLK". In the case of the parent's birth place you will see the same "Hun" added as a correction.
Clue #2 I think I found his immigration record. On line 23 is Andras Nota. You see something that begins with Petro.. but hard to tell. Any help with identifying the town would be so helpful. I was unable to find available on line any naturalization record. - Carl
Kommentare
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The passenger list looks like Petrócz. Dvorzsák's gazetteer lists half a dozen of those, but by 1906, most of them had been Hungarianized (usually to something-petri), so the one that seems most likely to me is Petrócz in Zemplén county, which is now Petrovce nad Laborcom in Slovakia. It had neither a church nor a civil registry office locally; the civil registry office and the Roman Catholic church were in Nagymihály (Michalovce), and the Greek Catholic church was in Topolyán (Topoľan, now absorbed into Michalovce).
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Hi Julia, Thank you for this information! Andras Nota Birth(Baptism?) is noted as August 07,1878. It appears he was married in Hungary about 1898. His spouse was named Mary on the 1920 and 1930 census. He was known as Andy or Andrew in the US. Sadly he died in 1923 at age 44. Oddly his spouse is noted at Susie on his death record. I have no idea what her maiden name was. She may have remarried since Andras died so young. I believe the couple was Catholic.
On both census records she lists her immigration year as 1909. It appears on the 1930 census she lists her place of birth (and parents) in Yugoslavia. I don't know if that would change anything from your initial thoughts.
I have never done any research in this region, so I would welcome any suggestions or links as to where to begin searching. Thank you for all your help- Carl
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Attached is Andrew Jr's marriage record giving his mother's maiden name.
This might be Andy and Mary in 1910 census.
Where did Andrew Sr die?
According to the 1920 census, he had filed his first papers; you might try contacting Tuscawaras County about obtaining a copy and/or the kids's birth certificates. I wonder where the kids were baptised?https://www.co.tuscarawas.oh.us/
Later: I am convinced that the town is Petrocz, Bacs-Bodrog, which is now in Serbia. Many of the names on the 1920 census you posted show up in the 1828 land census, including "Notha":https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/219959/?offset=0#page=294&viewer=picture&o=&n=0&q=
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@Christopher Kovach_1 @Julia Szent-Györgyi
Andrew SR. died in Dover, Tuscawaras, Ohio in 1923.
-great find on the marriage record of Andrew JR. I am guessing that the maiden name of "Gelowaki" is probably spelled wrong, but can't say for sure. I did a quick search and that exact surname spelling came up with 0 results.
-Do either of you know that when a woman was married in Hungary and then immigrated, did she travel under her maiden name or married last name?
-I may call up Tuscawaras county to see if they hold the naturalization records, but they were not available online in FS
-Just curious on the 1828 census link, an index for that town begins on page 275 (page viewer 298). I did see the surname "Notha". I'm going to try tomorrow to see if I can find anything close to Gelowaki.
-I'm wondering what you feel Julia about Christophers' thoughts?
Either way thank you both very much for your help, and I would welcome any additional help you can give- Carl
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Typically, a married Hungarian woman would travel using her married name; in this case either Maria Nota or Andrasne Nota. It's strange that Andras and Maria were married in 1898 but didn't have their first kid until 1910!
I couldn't find Andy's death record online.
The relevant Catholic church records are here:https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/10025?availability=Family%20History%20Library
I couldn't find Andras's baptism in 1878.
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I think Christopher is exactly right: despite being nowhere near Slovakia, Petrőcz is noted as predominantly Slovak-speaking in the 1913 gazetteer. The Lutheran church and the civil registry office were local; the Roman Catholic church was in Újfutak.
(The reason I missed it is that Dvorzsák has it as Petrovácz, while the 1913, being alphabetized by Hungarian rules -- wherein ö/ő comes after o/ó -- has Petrőcz after Petrozsény, where it didn't occur to me to look. The place is now Bački Petrovac, Serbia. Újfutak is now Novi Futog, part of Futog, Serbia.)
By traditional Hungarian rules, a woman's married name doesn't just change her surname. It's the whole shebang: Andy's wife was Nóta Andrásné. On an official travel document such as a passport, she'd most likely have both her married and maiden names listed. The complication is that the German/English style, where it's just the surname that changes, was (and is) so ingrained and automatic for people from those cultures that there's really no telling what the clerk in Hamburg or Bremen did when transferring her passport's information onto the passenger manifest. She could be listed as Nóta Andrásné, Nóta Mária, or Gelowski Mária, depending on the clerk's decisions.
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Based on my (lack of) results searching the Ujfutak RC registers for "Nota" or "Gelowski", it seems likely that they were Lutheran -- and I don't see those registers on FS. (DVHH doesn't seem to have anything about them, either.) Drat.
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I've found several of Andras's relatives, including his wife(as Andrasne) and father(Andras), emigrating under the name "Nuota". Andras himself emigrated later
under this name.https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C95R-674T-G?i=120&cc=1368704&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AJXGT-MM3
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@Christopher Kovach_1 @Julia Szent-Györgyi
I am certainly blessed with a couple of experts! Let me first say thank you. Maybe you can help me make some sense out of a few things beginning with the birth town
-Was this town Petrocz, Bacs-Bodrog (which is now in Serbia), was it ever a part of Hungary? How would you both try and get a standardized name? Petrocz, Bacs-Bodrog, Serbia / Petrocz, Bacs-Bodrog, Hungary.
-Just FYI I did find a 1910 census for Andras and Mary. On the 1910 and 1920 they both had 1908 (andras) and 1909 (Mary) as their immigration years. But the original Passenger list I found for Andras was in 1906. But now I have found another one actually in 1908 for Andras. What is odd is the other Passenger lists that have been found the port was Fiume, but this 1908 PList was from Breman (image 121-122)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C95R-674T-G?i=120&cc=1368704
-It is interesting that Andras's father made his way here. in 1914. I was thrilled that you found Mary's passenger record from 1909. On Andras 1923 death record it said his father's name was Mark.
-Julia you mentioned there were civil records for this town, do you or Christopher have a link where I could look for them? I'm going to take a second look thru the Catholic records, but I would like to see if I could find their marriage record
Thanks again for all your help -Carl
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A somewhat simplified timeline:
Before about 1905: Petrovácz, Bács-Bodrog, Hungary
About 1905 to 1920: Petrőcz, Bács-Bodrog, Hungary
1920 to 1929: Bački Petrovac, Bačka, Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes
1929 to 1941: Bački Petrovac, Danube Banovina, Yugoslavia
1941 to about 1945: Petrőcz, Bács-Bodrog, Hungary
1945 to 1992: Bački Petrovac, Vojvodina, Yugoslavia
1992 to present: Bački Petrovac, South Bačka, Vojvodina, Serbia
FamilySearch's Places database has this even further simplified to "Petrovácz, Bács-Bodrog, Hungary" up to 1918, "Bački Petrovac, South Bačka, Yugoslavia" 1918-2006, and "Bački Petrovac, South Bačka, Serbia" 2006-present.
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Regarding the civil registrations: I haven't a clue where to access these for places that are now in Serbia. I just know that the Kingdom of Hungary began civil registration on 1 Oct 1895, and the gazetteers say that there was a registry office in Petrőcz.
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At the time of Andras's birth it was Petrőcz, Bács-Bodrog, Hungary; after the Treaty of Trianon in 1919, it was part of the territory that Hungary ceded to what was then the newly-created country of Jugoslavia. With the breakup of Jugoslavia, it became part of Serbia, and is now called Bački Petrovac, as Julia noted in her post.
As Julia explained, the civil records are in Bački Petrovac, but are not available online. As Julia also noted, Petrőcz was predominantly inhabited by Lutherans; in the 1877 gazetteer the breakdown of population was 7100 Lutherans, 86 Roman Catholics, 20 Greek Orthodox, 159 Jewish and 34 "other". I couldn't find baptisms for ANY of the people in the 1920 census in Dover who had Petrocz as their birthplace on FamilySearch. I agree with Julia that they were most likely Lutherans and FamilySearch doesn't have the Lutheran records for Petrőcz in their catalog.
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It's probably not a productive use of your time or money, but the Archdiocese of Kalocsa has Catholic marriage records for Ujfutak through the early 1920's:https://archivum.asztrik.hu/?q=en/oldal/practical-information
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@Julia Szent-Györgyi @Christopher Kovach_1
Thank you both for an excellent history overview and the many changes of Petrőcz, Bács-Bodrog, Hungary.
I need to double back and re-confirm that my friend who I am helping could possibly be Luthern, but I don't think so. I also want to go to my local library where I can access Ancestry.com and see what I can find there.
I appreciate the link Christopher for the Catholic marriage records. Just wondering, you both have mentioned these gazetteer's. Is there a link where I can access them? - Carl
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Here's a link to the gazetteers through the Burgenland Bunch website: https://www.the-burgenland-bunch.org/Gazetteers/Gazetteers.htm
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In my experience, for Hungarian records, Ancestry is unlikely to have anything much that's not also on FS -- but I haven't looked there for anything that's now in Serbia.
I use two bookmarks for historical gazetteers: the Central Statistics Office's library (https://www.kshkonyvtar.hu/article/56/959/helysegnevtarak) and the Wayback Machine's copy of the English tabular version of Dvorzsák (https://web.archive.org/web/20160327063819/http://www.radixhub.com/radixhub/gazetteers/1877). The latter has links to the University of Pécs's scans; you just have to remove the archive.org stuff from the URL. The former has the 1913 as a PDF; it's over 1700 pages, so if you have any ancestors from Hungary, it makes sense to download and save it to your local machine.
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Records in Serbia are usually housed in the regional historical archives. While researchers there cannot do the digging for you, you can ask via email if they have records pertaining to civil registration for specific years. The archives you're looking for are in Novi Sad (http://www.arhivns.rs/rad-sa-istrazivacima/) and can be reached via email at arhivns@gmail.com . Be specific about the years and the location (Bački Petrovac). While they are very competent and kind, they are not permitted to go beyond telling you what exists in the archive. Searching the archive in person is an unforgettable experience, but if you are unable to visit Novi Sad, I can refer you to an excellent genealogist in Croatia that has performed research work in Serbia.
Hope this helps.
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