Request help to transcribe this record to find out if this Could this be my ancestor?
The name of my 4th great grandfather is Abraham Müller. There are several "Abraham Müller's to consider, but this death notice (from FHL film 176251, image 392 of 416) may contain clues (and help identify my 4th great grandmother as Gertraud [or Gertraut?] Knecht): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS8Y-LFNF?i=391&cat=99374
What is word in 1st column? Is the number in the 2nd column "25"? Did he die 25 Sep 1807 at age 78? Was he born abt 1729? Why are there two sentences? Others have just one. Why are there signatures(?) at the bottom? So many questions. Can you help transcribe and translate?
Beste Antwort
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I hope the marks explain everything:
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Leaving a comment to put at the top of Discussions
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Abnahme: another word for Auszehrung?
28 (date of burial)
/:Öffentlich:/ Abraham Müller, ein Messermacher u[nd] Wittener(?), verehelicht mit Anna Gertraut Knecht, unten zum Stokdum(?). Starb d[en] 25 ej[usdem]. alt 78.
Abraham Müller, knifemaker and …, husband of Anna Gertraut Knecht "unten zum Stokdum(?)", died 25th same month (August 1807), aged 78.
"Öffentlich" = public (as opposed to "still").
"unten zum Stokdum(?)" would be where the family lived.
The next para has nothing to do with Abraham Müller - just a confirmation that the above mentioned persons had been buried by pastor Engels.
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Stockdum (spelling in Meyers Gazetteer)
Could the one word be wittwer? (widower)
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I had considered "Wittwer" - but he was "verehelicht" - which I considered contradicting (I would expect "Wittwer von/der"). Looking through a few more pages, however I saw another "Wittwer verehelicht", but also "Wittwe von". Did the pastor use different wordings for widows and widowers? I find this unusual - but don't want to exclude it any longer.
Is the death date of Anna Gertraut Knecht known?
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@WSeelentag -- Thank you!
I know nothing about Anna Gertraut Knecht (yet). But it might help me find her death date to know if Abraham was a widower in 1807. It's very hard for me to read this handwriting.
I would appreciate confirmation that the correct month is August rather than September. I see it at the top of the first column, but the numbers below are not in order, so I assumed September. Also, in the 2nd sentence, I see "Sept 1807". But I agree that August seems quite plausible.
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@WSeelentag -- Thanks again. Beautiful explanation! I read "17" as "7" but see it has to be "17". Thanks.
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As someone has marked all names, looking through these records is quite fast. I concentrated on mentions of Gertraut - and was surprised how popular this name seems to have been there and then. However, I did not find an Anna Gertraut Knecht, married Müller, during 1786 through 1808 ... could have missed her, of course, e.g. if abbreviated "Gertr." or something like it.
This does not disprove the "Wittwer", though!
If Abraham Müller was born around 1729, he likely got married in 1750 or later. Unfortunately the marriage records of Wald (as available on familsearch) begin as late as 1770 ... likely too late. I don't know whether earlier marriage records are lost, not filmed, or possibly earlier marriages took place in another parish.
I'm not familiar with the region, so I'm afraid, that is as much as I am able to help. I wish you success with your further research.
Best regards - Wolf
BTW - there is an Abraham Müller born in 1729 on https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/MDTB-FKM
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