Can you help me decipher and translate this baptism record?

Gary Knecht

Henriette Müller was baptized 14 Jan 1807 [FHL Film 176237; image 460 of 586] 180/02

Parents: Peter Müller Messermacher zu Pilghaus(?) N.19 und Anna Catarina Hartkopf _____ _____. Wilh. Hartkopf_ _____ zu Wald. ____

Henrietta 5? (should be 8th child!???) [time of birth?] [midwife?] Gros

Godparents: Peter Kolfertz, Messermacher(?) zu(?) Wald, Abraham Muller, Messermacher(?) ______; Anna Gertraud Blanke _____, Caspar Dopper _____. Anna Cath[arina] Weke_____ Wilh[elm] Weck, _____ Wald

Here's a duplicate(?) copy of the same birth notice from FHL Film 176239; image 547 of 630:

Gary Knecht

Explanation (1) won't work because numbers on this page are 2, 5, 6, 4, 3.

Explanation (2) is unlikely because Henrietta appears to be the 3rd daughter.

Explanation (3) is very hard to research because death records prior to 1811 in and around Solingen are not indexed (or I have not yet found any indexes). The first child was born to this couple in 1793, so I would need to look at death records (one at a time) for up to 15 years. Instead, I think I'm going to see which children have marriage records after 1811 so I can narrow down the possible childhood deaths to fewer than 7. Maybe by then, I'll discover an index. Or some other source.

Thanks again, @Robert Seal_1 - I really appreciate your help.

Robert Seal_1

Hello @Gary Knecht,

Translation of the duplicate birth record:

First column: 14.

Second column: Pet[er] Müller, knifemaker at "Pilchhaus" [= Pilghaus] no. 19 and Anna Cathar[ina] Hartkop, daughter of the late W[ilhel]m Hartkop at Straßen, Reformed faith, married at Wald.

Third column: 5. Henrietta, born on the 6th after midday at 12 o'clock [midnight]; midwife Gros.

Fourth column: Peter Kolferts and Abraham Müller, both knifemakers in Wald; Anna Gerdraut Blanke, wife of Casp[ar] Döpper, merchant here; and Anna Weck, wife of W[ilhel]m Weck, a polisher/grinder in Wald.

Robert Seal_1

Hello @Gary Knecht,

Here is your transcription of the first record with most of the blanks filled in:

Parents: Peter Müller Messermacher zu Pilchhaus [= Pilghaus] N.19 und Anna Catarina Hartkopf Tochter vom verstorbenen Wilh. Hartkopf zur? Stras(s)en, kop[uliert] zu Wald. ref[ormiert] Konf[ession].

5. Henrietta, geb[oren] den 6ten, 12 Uhr Nachm[ittags]. Heb[amme] Gros.

Godparents: Peter Kolferts, Messermacher in Wald, Abraham Muller, Messermacher ibidem; Anna Gertraud Blanke, Ehef[rau] von __? Caspar Dopper, K_u______? hies[elbst]; Anna Cath[arina] Wek, Ehef[rau] von Wilh[elm] Wek, Schleifer in Wald.

Comments: In this record, Caspar Dopper's occupation does not look like "Kaufmann" as in the duplicate record. The word here looks like it begins with "Keu . . ." or "Knu . . ."

Wilhelm Hartkopf comes from Strassen. Here is the link for Strassen from Meyers Gazetteer: https://www.meyersgaz.org/place/20894033

Strassen is approximately 3 miles west southwest of Solingen.

The Latin word "ibidem" translates as: in the same place.

With the transcription of the first record and the translation of the second record, you should be able to translate the first record and make sense of it.

Gary Knecht

With your help (and "DeepL"), it seems very easy. Thank you @Robert Seal_1

Translation:

Parents: Peter Müller, knife maker from Pilghaus[en] and Anna Catarina Hartkopf, daughter of the late Wilh. Hartkopf from Strassen, married in Wald. ref[ormed] conf[ession]

5. Henrietta, born on the 6th, 12 noon. Midwife Gros

Godparents: Peter Kolferts, knife maker in Wald, Abraham Muller, knife maker in the same place; Anna Gertraud Blanke, _____ Caspar Dopper _____; Anna Cath[arina] Wek, wife of Wilh[elm] Wek, grinder in Wald.

Comments: Henrietta, born in Jan 1807, is clearly shown as the 5th child of this couple. However, Johann Carl, born in Oct 1804, is clearly shown as the 7th child and Carolina, born in Oct 1808, is clearly shown as the 9th child. Why isn’t Henrietta shown as the 8th child? Are they only counting surviving children? Are the parents different (with same names)? Additional research is needed!

Robert Seal_1

Well done, @Gary Knecht. The couple of blanks in your translation are not material to the overall translation and you have information about Caspar Döpper from the duplicate record which you could use to fill-in the blanks.

Regarding the number "5": Some possible explanations: (1) this is the 5th birth/baptismal record for the year?; (2) this is the 5th daughter in this family?; or (3) as you ask: Are they only counting surviving children?

Question for you, Gary: Do you prefer Deepl over Google Translate?

Robert Seal_1

You're welcome, Gary.

WSeelentag

Ehefr[au von] Casp[ar] Döpper, Kaufm[ann]