Help with translation of marriage record year 1808
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-KS9X-FB?i=72&cc=1640373
I would appreciate help with finishing and correcting my transcription and translation of the year 1808 marriage record for Hanns Baumgartner and Christina Küenzi (entry 48) in Oberdiessbach, Bern, Switzerland.
FYI here is the information for the record on FamilySearch:
Schweiz, Kirchenbücher, 1277-1992 Bern Bremgarten Evangelisch-Reformierte Toten, Index 1721-1807, image number 73. I hope that helps you find the record if the URL doesn't work.
Thank you! Debra
Transcription:
Numerus 48. Baumgartner, Hanns, t?. Bremgarten; Wohuh.? zu Riston. (:Joh. u A Mosimann S: geb. 8 July 1785)
Küenzi, Christina, t?. Jaberg, R.G. R?dorf haus? der Marey Streit ? R?dorf ? Tochter geb. 9 Nov. 1783 26 Jann? 1823
Verkündung: [blank]
Schein: 1808. Nov. 20. 27. Dec. 4.
Copulation: Oberdiessbach [Bern, Switzerland] 1808 Dec. 9.
Translation:
Number 48. Baumgartner, Hanns [the groom], t?. Bremgarten; ? in Riston [residence of the groom?] (Johann [name of father?] and A [Ann?] Mosimann [name of mother?] son born 8 July 1785 [birthdate of the groom?]
Küenzi, Christina [the bride], t?. Jaberg, R.G. Ringdorf. haus ? the Marey Streit [name of mother?], ? R?dorf ? daughter born 9 November 1783 [birthdate of the bride] 26 January 1823 [could be death date of Christina?]
Pronouncement: [blank]
Certificate: 1808 November 20th, 27th, December 4th [dates of marriage proclamation?]
Place and Date of wedding: Oberdiessbach [Bern, Switzerland] 1808 December 9
Willkommen!
Beste Antwort
-
N[umer]o: 48.
Baumgartner, Hannu, v[on] Bremgarten; wohnh[aft] zu Kisten[?]. (Joh[ann] u[nd] A[nna] Mosimann S[ohn] get[auft] 8 July 1785).
Küenzi, Christina, v[on] Jaberg, K[irch]-G[emeinde] Kirchdorf.
Hansen und der Mareÿ Streit v[on] Kirchdorf eh[e]l[iche] Tochter get[auft] 9 Nov. 1783.
beschein[ig]t v[on] Walthard, Pf[ar]r[er] d[en] 26 Jenner 1823.
Verkündung: 1808. Nov. 20. 27. Dec. 4 (shifted 1 column due to added note on parents).
Schein: not needed as Verkündung was locally, Schein is required if from other parish.
Copulation: Oberdiessbach [Bern, Switzerland] 1808 Dec 9.
Hannu seems to be the Hebrew version of Hans (never heard of it before 😊). Mareÿ is also quite unusual.
Hannu Baumgartner was citizen of Bremgarten and lived in Kisten[?] - I assume the Kiesen of today.
He was the son of Johann Baumgartner and Anna (most likley) Mosimann, baptised 08 Jul 1785.
Christina Küenzi was citizen of Jaberg, parish Kirchdorf (see https://www.geneal-forum.com/phpbb/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=95208#p95208).
She was the legitimate daughter of Hans Küenzi and Mareÿ Streit, baptised 09 Nov 1783.
On 26 Jan 1823 a priest named Walthard issued some sort of attest.
The dates of the announcements were shifted one column - an attest as for "foreign" people was not required.
The marriage took place 09 Dec 1808 in Oberdiessbach.
At least in 1935 Bremgarten was no (longer?) a place of citizenship for Baumgartner. Both Küenzi and Streit were citizens of Jaberg since before 1800 - but Streit also of Kirchdorf: Mareÿ Streit was citizen originally of Kirchdorf - both her given name and citizenship are confirmed by the daughter's baptismal entry.
1
Antworten
-
Thank you very much for your edits to my transcription and thorough translation of the record. Your comment was interesting about Hannu and Mareÿ being unusual given names. The link for geneal-forum that lists towns in Canton Bern and names of the parish for each is helpful. The information is similar to the "Ecclesiastical" feature on Meyers Gazetteer website except that it is for Switzerland. I appreciate the details about the citizenship of the families with time lines and also confirmation for the given name of the mother Mareÿ and her citizenship. Thank you again!
I read some of the information in "Check out the useful information ..." and "Switzerland Genealogy Research Resource Links" and it is very helpful.
I have a few questions:
1) In church records, when the scribe was writing information about places for a particular person, is it usual that he would first list the "town of citizenship" proceeded by the word "von" (sometimes abbreviated) and then list the "town of residence" after that?
2) In your comment about the towns of citizenship for the Baumgarten, Küenzi and Streit families, was the information found on the "Register of Swiss Surnames"?
3) I found four marriage records for Hannu and Christina and each one is a little bit different. I will post a request for help with translation of each record because I think the translations may help to clarify the spelling of the place Kisten[?] or Kiesen and I think the given name Hannu could be spelled different too. The records are from Bremgarten, Oberdiessbach, Wichtrach and Kirchdorf. Was the reason that copies of the marriage record were sent to so many towns because of the requirement for record keeping in the town of citizenship for the groom and bride? Perhaps Wichtrach was one of the towns because the Proclamation was announced in either the groom or bride's town of residence?
0 -
1) In church records, when the scribe was writing information about places for a particular person, is it usual that he would first list the "town of citizenship" proceeded by the word "von" (sometimes abbreviated) and then list the "town of residence" after that?
Correct - and usually the town of residence will be preceded by "in".
2) In your comment about the towns of citizenship for the Baumgarten, Küenzi and Streit families, was the information found on the "Register of Swiss Surnames"?
Yes. At least in 1935 Bremgarten was no (longer?) a place of citizenship for Baumgartner is based on the 1940 edition (data collected around 1935 - not online); the online data were collected in 1962.
3) I found four marriage records for Hannu and Christina and each one is a little bit different. I will post a request for help with translation of each record because I think the translations may help to clarify the spelling of the place Kisten[?] or Kiesen and I think the given name Hannu could be spelled different too. The records are from Bremgarten, Oberdiessbach, Wichtrach and Kirchdorf. Was the reason that copies of the marriage record were sent to so many towns because of the requirement for record keeping in the town of citizenship for the groom and bride? Perhaps Wichtrach was one of the towns because the Proclamation was announced in either the groom or bride's town of residence?
Yes - it will basically be connected to the announcements - see https://community.familysearch.org/de/discussion/comment/458869/#Comment_458869.
There was "Hanns" instead of Hannu in the daughters baptismal entry (above).
1 -
WSeelentag,
The answers to my questions are all helpful. Thank you!
0