Two names?
My grandmother has two birth certificate one that says her mother is Arbeiterin Elsa Wolf and the second one just says Elsa wolf. Which ones correct? She was adopted so I’m not too sure, also does ur say her mom was from Wiesbaden biebrich
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Her name is Elsa Wolf.
Her occupation/profession is Arbeiterin = worker.
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And it says the mother is living in Wiesbaden Biebrich. I wonder if there might be a 1932 city directory available somewhere?
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@JohnsonGreg @DeTe1955 know very little about her mother. I don’t know where her mother was born or how many kids she had. I did find an Elsa Wolf on here in someone’s memories but when i clicked on it, it went to else wolf. Not sure if it was a typo i never heard back from the author of it. I do have a will from someone related to her mom that was her sister. Her name was Elisabeth wolf and it in Raunheim. But it lists my grandmother and her sister as cousins. I will post it when i dig it back up. Thanks so much guys
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@JohnsonGreg this is the photo. The title says Elsa but her name says Else https://www.familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/111403087
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I would be inclined to consider Else and Elsa as the same name. I have observed that the final e/a in a german name are often interchanged depending on the scribe. I have ancestors whose records show their names as Margarethe or Margaretha; Elisabethe or Elisabetha.
I also wouldn't be surprised if Elsa/Else is a shortened version/nickname for Elisabeth (or one of the many spelling variations of Elisabeth). So it may make more sense if Else Wolf is a cousin to Elisabeth Wolf rather than a sister since they likely both were given the name Elisabeth at birth.
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@JohnsonGreg would they name two kid’s Elisabeth? I feel like I’m grasping at things and i don’t want to be wrong about it. Ever since i lost my grandma i have been on this search to learn about her life in Germany Bc she was such a huge part of my life i am feeling empty since she’s been gone. So this has been a great way to fill my time.
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Hi Bailey74,
Sometimes siblings might be given the same forename when they were given multiple forenames. For example, one of my ancestors had two daughters and named them Marie Helene Blech and Marie Friedericke Blech. I doubt that they each went by "Marie" in everyday life. They probably went by Helene and Friedericke.
If I understood correctly, the will for Elisabeth Wolf of Raunheim indicated that she and your Elsa Wolf were cousins but that you had other information indicating they were sisters. Since they both seemed to go by a version of the name Elisabeth it may make more sense that the will is correct and that they are cousins (and it is difficult to believe a will would incorrectly identify a sister as a cousin).
However, there are no absolutes. People often do unexpected things. So maybe they are sisters who both had Elisabeth as one of their forenames and one really liked being called Elsa and the other Elisabeth.
You'll need to get as many records as possible to piece together your grandmothers story. Unfortunately, it may be very, very, difficult to do so because the records are so recent and most are still protected and unavailable. I understand that German birth records are protected for 110 years and marriage records for 80 years.
In addition, the surname Wolf and the forename Elisabeth are very common names so it will be easy to mistake some other Elisabeth/Elsa Wolf's records for your great grandmother's records. You will need to be very careful to not assume that any Elsa Wolf or Elisabeth Wolf record is your great grandmother's record.
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@JohnsonGreg thank you so much. How would i go about getting her mothers birth record?
so you’re thinking they were cousins? It says to her 1/2 siblings children and then it lists my grandma separately as a daughter of her deceased 1/2 sister. Some of the children of her 1/2 siblings have a different last name, we were never really sure of how many kids her mother had. However my grandma was born in 1932 and it says her aunt was born in 1929
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I think we are confusing each other.
According to your last post, the will of Elizabeth Wolf of Raunheim says that your grandma (Ilse Helene Wolf) is the daughter of the late Elsa Wolf who is the half-sister of the deceased, Elizabeth Wolf of Raunheim.
If that is what the will says, then there is no reason to question it.
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Hi Bailey 74,
What you have is two documents from the District Court detailing the distribution of the estate of Elisabeth Wolf who was born in Raunheim March 20, 1929 and died in Raunheim on Feb 28, 1993. The distribution is done either according to the directions of her will or, if no will exists, according to a set protocol. The protocol would involve identifying all close living relatives (parents, siblings, children, etc) and distributing a part of the estate to each eligible relative depending on how closely related they were. It appears that Elisabeth had no living parents, spouse, children or grandchildren at the time of her death.
The 2nd page dated 1995 clearly shows that your grandma is the daughter of Elisabeth Wolfs' deceased half sister. I think you can have confidence that this relationship is correct. It is very serious business for these relationships to be correct in order to ensure the estate is distributed correctly.
I suspect that the reason it is in two documents (First page in 1993, the second 1995) is because they were still trying to track down your grandma's information in 1993. If you look at the distribution of shares of the estate on the 1993 page it accounts for all except 1/20th of the estate. That 1/20th is accounted for in the 1995 document detailing the distribution to your grandma.
These two pages should be very helpful.
Elisabeth has one living "full" brother Ludwig Wolf, born May 12, 1926, who received 4/15 of her estate. (He apparently has no children?)
Elisabeth has one living half brother, Fritz Lösch, born June 3, 1920, who received 1/6 of her estate. (He apparently is the father of the Lösch children listed later)
Elisabeth has one living half sister, born Anna Maria Wolf on May 26, 1914, who received 1/10 of her estate. She now has the last name Pinkel.
The remaining listed individuals are children of Elisabeth's half-siblings. Their parents aren't specified but it seems reasonable that the two Lösch children belong to Fritz Lösch.
You seem to have other information that Amalie is also the daughter of Elsa Wolf. So that leaves unknown who are the parents of Helmut Wolf b 1929 and Edgar Wolf b 1939.
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Back to your question about how to get Elsa Wolf's birth record. At this point there is no way to get it because you don't know her birth date or parents names. In addition it may not be public since it is probably still within the 110 year limit.
However, her half sister, Elisabeth Wolf of Raunheim, died Feb 28, 1993. So the 30 year limit for death records will elapse next year. You should be able to request a copy of Elizabeth Wolf's death certificate next year. Hopefully, that will have her parents listed. One of these parents will also be a parent of Elsa.
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@JohnsonGreg thank you so much
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