Translation in back of photo
Beste Antworten
-
If you could be translate these too. Are the documents on the same person (Angela Martellotta)?
Angela's mother and father and dates, location. Thank you!
0 -
@DebraAdao Yes, this situation is unusual to say the least! To have two births spaced by a couple days by what appears to be the same woman is obviously impossible. Either there are two women with the same name or one or both of these births are not actually from the mother.
By the way, I missed something translating Angela's 1886 birth record. If you notice right at the end of her birth record there is a stamp from the clerk that says she died in Alberobello on 7 Feb 1968[?]. The year is hard to read, but it looks like 1968 to me. Unfortunately, anything past 1935 is not accessible online, so it'd be impossible for you to (easily) access Angela's original death record to see what it says.
0 -
Well, for sure now I know that the sisters were working together in raising Filippo, this tells me that the mother wanted the best care she can give him. Thank you for clarifying the birth records, the next step is to take your advice and have a professional look for any other records from the Parish and Town Hall. You helped me a lot and it's well appreciated. I will continue to look also in the Family Search Center.
0
Antworten
-
The photo says: "That this photo may reach you dear uncle. With much love, your nephew Filippo."
As for the birth record:
18 Dec 1886, Alberobello ... Addolorata Martellotta, age 35, clothesmaker, resident in Alberobello declares that at 7:08am of the 15th of this month in the house at Vicolo Fornovecchio 20, from her natural union with a single man not related to her in a manner that would impede the recognition of his paternity, was born a female child whom she named Angela
As you can see, Angela has no legal father. The wording used implies that the father is known, just not legally recognized. This was actually a very common situation in some parts of Italy during this time period. The reason is that at this time, church marriages were not legally recognized in Italy, as was the case traditionally. To protest this, many people refused to marry civilly at all, marrying only in church. To punish this, the civil officials would mark their children as illegitimate. Most of the time, the couple would relent and marry civilly later which would allow the child to be recognized as legitimate and have their paternity recognized, but this was not always possible. If the man died before they could marry civilly, there was nothing to be done!
Now, this here is not guaranteed to be the case, and there are other possible explanations, but this is the most likely. If you go through random 1880s births in Alberobello and find many other examples of this, then this would provide very solid evidence that this is was what was going on.
If you want to identify Angela's father, the only possible methods I see would be:
- To obtain Angela's death record and hope a father is mentioned.
- To consult the church baptism record for Angela. Assuming her parents were indeed married in church only as I suspect, the baptism record would name both parents. Of course, church records for Alberobello are not digitized and can only be consulted in person with special permission from the parish. That said, since all you need at this time is one baptism record, if you contact the parish by email, they may be willing to help you.
Marriage record:
13 Mar 1912, Alberobello ... 1. Leonardantonio Scianni, widower, age 32, farmer, born in Alberobello, resident in Alberobello, son of the late [illegible], resident in Alberobello, and of the late Angela De Carlo, resident in Alberobello 2. Angela Martellotta, single, age 26, born in Alberobello, resident in Alberobello, daughter of Addolorata, resident in Alberobello
To answer your question, these are indeed the same person. The way I know this is that I obtained the allegati record for this marriage. See: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89G8-M9WS-T?i=854&cat=703993 The allegati are the documents provided by the bride and groom to obtain license to marry, and one of these is the birth certificate. As we can see, the birth certificate that the bride provided is indeed the exact same birth in 1886 you found above.
1 -
Thank you so much for the information provided, Wish I knew the name of the person in the picture, But the person who wrote it is my grandfather and I didn't know that till you translated it. Super job!!! Thank you..
I meant to send you this link because I'm trying to compare this link of Carmela to Angela the one you just translated, I was wondering if they are sisters. The birth year for Carmela is important to know, and the translations of the record. I have Carmela's birth date as 4 Dec 1886 same year as Angela.
0 -
Hello again,
The birth certificate for Carmela begins on image 178: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-893N-Y4XB?i=177&cc=2043445
It reads:
8 Dec 1886, Coreggia, Monopoli ... Addolorata Martellotti, age 32, resident in Alberobello, declared that at 7:15am on the 4th of the month, in the house at Contrada Coreggia, from her natural union with a single man not related to her in a manner that would impede the recognition of his paternity, was born a female child whom she named Carmela
Note that Coreggia is just 3km from Alberobello. Until 1895, this village was within the boundaries of the comune of Monopoli, but today, this village is part of the comune of Alberobello.
I went to consult the original 1886 births for Coreggia on Antenati (https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/detail-registry/?s_id=4137502) and located the original birth certificate on page 19 (record #48).
With this, it's clear that Angela and Carmela cannot be sisters since they were born too close together, but this is still quite shocking. It's obviously not impossible to have two women with identical names both in the same position (not married civilly) but it's still a rare occurrence in a small town such as this. If you search the Alberobello deaths (which are online up to 1935), you may be able to prove this definitively by finding two different death records for unmarried women named Addolorata Martellotta/i. This would prove definitively that Carmela and Angela are not sisters. While you're at it, you should also search for the deaths of both Angela and Carmela to see what they have to say.
0 -
I noticed the dates were close together, and the age of the mother (Addolorata) 32 with Carmela and I believe the same age with Angela at birth. The mother's name is Margarita Addolorata, but goes by Addolorata on most of her records, she died in 1927 #7 Image-3 the name Scianni Leonardantonio that is Angela's husband. The mother lived in both places, Alberobello and Correggia. I haven't found Carmela's death record on my end the dates only go up to 1895. Could you help me find the death record.? The surname is spelled Martellotta, or with an o at the end or sometimes with an i it depends who is recording the information. Thanks for your help.
0 -
Could you translate this record of my grandfather? His mother is Margarite Addolorata Martellotta, also for Angela that you just translated a record for me. My grandfather was born illegitimate and given to a foundling home in Alberobello, he was given the name Filippo Negri by the Town Hall, His mother came forth before Filippo's marriage and claimed him and gave her surname as Martellotta, the father is listed as unknown.
How do I find the birth father of Filippo, by writing to the Town Hall or having someone go there to do the research? He has a birth record under the name Filippo Negri 1889. Both birth records show an unknown father. You do great work on translation and need your help in this area. Thank you!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89G8-M9WG-B?i=1223
0 -
@DebraAdao With regards to Carmela's death record, since Carmela marries in 1903 (see: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G93N-G5L8?i=10), we know that she must die after 1903, presumably in Alberobello. The Alberobello death records are online on FamilySearch up to 1929 and for 1930-1935 are available on Antenati. If she happened to die after 1935, then her death record will not be accessible to you.
I very quickly browsed the death records available, but did not find any death record for Carmela. That said, I would still recommend searching thoroughly for it, if you haven't already done so.
0 -
@DebraAdao I will translate this 1912 act of recognition. This legal recognition of maternity by Addolorata with regards to Filippo was completed in front of the notary Carlo De Anna.
On 22 Feb 1912, in Alberobello, in my office .... before the witnesses Cosimo D'Agostino, son of Salvatore, tailor, and Domenico Gigante, son of the late Donato, landowner, all born and resident in Alberobello, appeared Addolorata Martellotto daughter of the late Antonio Vito, domestica (homemaker or maid), never married, born and resident in Alberobello, and known personally by myself and the witnesses, declares wishing to publicly recognize her natural son, registered in the civil registration of Alberobello under the name Filippo Negri, born in Alberobello on 25 May 1889, registration Parte Seconda #7 ... In consquence, Addolorata Martellotto assumes from this moment forward the obligations deriving from this recognition, as per the law ...
Just to see, I went to get his original 1889 birth record (https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/detail-registry/?s_id=3812186 page 110) and it says:
25 May 1889, Alberobello ...
Caterina Grattagliano, age 44, midwife and solemn receiver of abandoned babies, declared that last night at 11pm in the foundling wheel she heard cries from a baby boy whom she presents to me, covered in a white wool blanket and also a black one, and on his head a handkerchief of white cotton, with no name or other identifying sign
I named said baby Filippo Di Negri and assigned him to be nursed by Maria Martellotta daughter of the late Antonio Vito, never married, age 33, born and resident in Alberobello, who promised to nurse and9o raise him as though he were own son and to submit to verification of this when required by the authorities
Witnesses were Francesco De Carlo, age 50, farmer, and Giacomo P i n t o, age 49, tailor, both resident in Alberobello.
This 3rd child of Addolorata was a true foundling, abandoned at birth. He was assigned to a sister of Addolorata for rearing. It was commonly practiced that children born out wedlock or with some other reason for which a family would not want the child registered officially, that the child would be fictitiously abandoned and then assigned back to the family. In practice, the birth family would then raise the child normally.
What's most useful is that the legal recognition in 1912 gives Addolorata's father's name, which allows you to identify her reliably.
At the end of the day, in cases such as this, determining the true circumstances of the birth and the family are impossible without private knowledge, knowledge that unfortunately is often lost to time. However, one thing is certain, and that is that for all legal and societal purposes, Addolorata was recognized and accepted as Filippo's mother. Given the fact that he was assigned at birth to her sister, and given the fact that she clearly had other children in similar circumstances, it's virtually certain that she was indeed the woman who gave birth to him.
I would still recommend attempting to access church baptism records in Alberobello (or even the 1927 church death record for Addolorata) to see if these can provide any additional detail. However, like I said earlier, these are only consultable in person with special permission, and is generally very difficult to do. Most people who end up accessing Italian church records will work with a professional genealogist based in the area.
0 -
Thank you so much for the translations, very well done!. I looked up Carmela morti of 1903-1927 as far as I could go with no luck in finding her. On Antinati how did you find that the death records go to 1930-1935. I only could go as far as 1900?.
0 -
@DebraAdao Thank you for the kind words, it is truly my pleasure!
For 1930-1935, I was referring to these records: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/2510930. I assumed they were also published on Antenati, but you are right, they are not. These records would have to be consulted at your local Family History Center, I'm afraid.
0 -
I will definitely take on your advice on consulting with my local Family History Center. I'm going to find someone that will be willing to go directly to the Town Hall and the Parish to investigate records on my grandfather. Thank you again for your support.😀
0 -
I found this record of Addolorata Scianni the possible child of Angela Martellotta, if I'm right this child was named after Angela's mother Addolorata. The child must be a couple of years old, maybe? What do you think?
0 -
13 Feb 1914, Alberobello ... at 1:20am today in the house at Contrada Coreggia #495, died Addolorata Scianni, age 1, resident in Alberobello, born in Alberobello, daughter of Leonardantonio, farmer, resident in Alberobello, and of Angela Martellotta, farmer, resident in Alberobello
Indeed, it seems that Angela and her husband named their daughter for her mother. This was pretty common in Italy. Normally, it's 1st son for the husband's father, 2nd son for the wife's father, 1st daughter for the husband's mother, and 2nd daughter for the wife's mother, but this wasn't always followed exactly and families could name their kids as they preferred.
0 -
I took your advice and went to the Family History Center in my location, found this birth record of Filippo Negri, this was locked on my end. I see the name of Maria is the caretaker for Filippo, his mother is Addolorata I know the two women are sisters. I did not see Addolorata's name on the birth record so this birth record for sure was done by the Town Hall, the mother came forth later on to give him her sure name of Martellotta. I'm hoping there is a clue as to who is the birth father of Filippo. Could you translate this for me? Thank You!
005620507
#2802
0 -
This is the original birth record registered in 1889. I translated it for you already above, but here it is again:
25 May 1889, Alberobello ...
Caterina Grattagliano, age 44, midwife and solemn receiver of abandoned babies, declared that last night at 11pm in the foundling wheel she heard cries from a baby boy whom she presents to me, covered in a white wool blanket and also a black one, and on his head a handkerchief of white cotton, with no name or other identifying sign.
I named said baby Filippo Di Negri and assigned him to be nursed by Maria Martellotta daughter of the late Antonio Vito, never married, age 33, born and resident in Alberobello, who promised to nurse and raise him as though he were own son and to submit to verification of this when required by the authorities.
Witnesses were Francesco De Carlo, age 50, farmer, and Giacomo P i n t o, age 49, tailor, both resident in Alberobello.
So this baby was truly registered as being unknown and was apparently physically abandoned. However, he was indeed assigned to Addolorata's sister Maria for rearing. It was pretty common practice that when children were born out wedlock or with some other circumstance for which a family would not want the child registered officially, the child would be fictitiously abandoned and then assigned straight back to the family by the officials. Then, the birth family would raise the child normally. Therefore, it's very likely that Addolorata is truly Filippo's birth mother especially given that she recognizes him later on in life, but there's no real way to know with absolute certainty. All we can know with absolute certainty, is that legally and socially, for all intents and purposes, she was indeed recognized publicly as his mother. None of these records name any father, so identifying a birth father will be basically hopeless, I'm afraid.
The only possibility I see is to look at actual church records for all these individuals to see what they have to say, but again this can only be done on-location and with special permission from the parish priest.
0
