Diemtigen - Chorgericht - 1870/71 - Kunz&Widmer - identify father

GregWidmer

I would appreciate some help in translating the court records below. My grandmother, Lisette Widmer (FS ID K1R2-FX4), gave birth to four illegitimate children. Her first child is Maria Margaritha Widmer (FS ID G2S4-M3D), I have found the court records pertaining to Lisett Widmer and Jakob Kunz in the Diemtigen parish records (Chorgerichtsmanuale von Diemtigen 1632-1874). These court records are available on CD at the FamilySearch Library in SLC, UT.

I would appreciate it if someone could translate these record for me. My ultimate goal is to identify Jakob Kunz. There are many people in FS with name and I would like to identify his parentage, in aditition to having a translation of the court rercords.

I believe the 3rd image has only a small piece that pertains to Lisette Widmer and Jakob Kunz - Item IV in the document.

Thank You,

Greg Widmer

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The original topic title "Translation Request - Trying to identify Jakob Kunz, Father of Maria Margaritha Widmer" has been adapted to reflect the later discussion topic - see the suggestion on https://community.familysearch.org/de/discussion/129680/what-title-would-be-best-for-postings.  

WSeelentag

Chorgerichtsmanual Diemtigen 1870, Seite 117

Gegenstand: Lisette Widmer / Vaterschaftsklage / gegen Jakob Kunz.

Ordentliche Sitzung des Kirchen=Vorstandes, im Pfarrhause, den 11. Dezember 1870.

Präsident: J. J. Reber, Großrath.

Sekretär: J. G. Kopp, Pfarrer

Verhandlung:

Es erscheint vor Kirchenvorstand Lisette Widmer, der Katharina spur[ia], von Zwischenflüh, im Oeÿenried daselbst, geb. 1852. Sie bekennt sich schwanger seit Mitte September 1870 von Jakob Kunz im Roßacker zu Zwischenflüh, der sie kiltgangsweise mehrere Male in ihrer Wohnung besucht und mit ihr fleischlichen Umgang gepflogen habe. Er habe ihr die Ehe versprochen seither aber verlauten lassen, er wolle sie nicht heirathen. Aus diesem Grunde habe sie schon im Monat November bei Weibel Widmer in Oeÿen Anzeige ihrer Schwangerschaft gemacht. Sie behauptet, mit Niemand anderm als besagtem Jakob Kunz fleischlichen Umgang gehabt zu haben. Da sie bei ihrer Mutter niederkommen will, so werden ihr als G….weiber bestimmt: Maria Wampfler in Oeÿen und Maria Hirschi im …. zu Zwischenflüh. ___ Als Gebühr wird ihr auferlegt 1.50 cts.

Abgelesen und bestätigt Sig. Lisette Widmer.

Der Präsident des K[irchen]=Vorstandes: [leer]

Der Sekretär: J. G. Kopp, Pfarrer

Summary: Jakob Kunz lives im Rossacker zu Zwischenflüh. Zwischenflüh is part of Diemtigen, and Rossacker are a few farms in Zwischenflüh. Lisette Widmer is from Zwischenflüh as well - so they attended the same church, and kiltgangsweise (likely implying on the way home after church) Jakob Kunz had visited her in her house and they had fleischlichen Umgang (sexual intercourse).

Are the copies the original resolution? Higher resolution would make reading easier: cannot decipher the G….weiber.

In the second record Jakob Kunz admits sexual intercourse, but denies the possibility to be the father. No more info on Jakob Kunz.

Now on his identification: he likely was fairly young and may have lived with his parents - so they would have lived im Rossacker.  You mention that there are several Jakob Kunz: have you checked Diemtigen baptismal records for Jakob Kunz? Is im Rossacker as place of living mentioned in any entry?

WSeelentag

The most likely candidate (I have found) would be https://www.query.sta.be.ch/Dateien/18/D94620.pdf#page=37

20.04./01.06.1851 Jakob Kunz des Christian von Zwischenflüh im Bodenacker.

Then there is (likely "to old") https://www.query.sta.be.ch/Dateien/18/D94618.pdf#page=147

21.04./01.05.1843 Jakob Kunz des Jakob von und zu Zwischenflüh, im Hüseli, in Oeÿen.

There are several more Jakob Kunz born 1841 and before: most of the Kunz families seem to have lived in Zwischenflüh, which doesn't help.

GregWidmer

Wolf,

Thank you so much for your help with this issue. I was hoping that there was mor information in these court entries to identify which Jakob Kunz is being spoken of. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Thank You,

Greg Widmer

WSeelentag

I am glad if I could help (even it doesn't help to solve your problem) ... but I would still be interested in a higher resolution copy (if available): I would like to solve the "G….weiber" problem.

Daniel57704

The Historical Lexicon of Switzerland describes "Kiltgang" as follows (excerpt from https://hls-dhs-dss.ch/de/articles/025620/2020-01-31/):

"Kiltgang bezeichnet das vor allem in ländlichen Regionen von der Sitte geregelte Werbeverhalten junger Männer, wonach sie nachts einzeln oder in Gruppen heiratsfähige Mädchen zuhause besuchten, sei es durch Einstieg in deren Kammern oder Zusammensein in der Stube. Der Einlass wurde oft mit verstellter Stimme, wohlgesetzten Reden oder besonderen Kiltsprüchen verlangt. Nächtliche Rivalenkämpfe gehörten zum typischen Erscheinungsbild ... Gegenüber fremden Kiltern herrschte meist Unduldsamkeit ..."

Since all the articles in the lexicon are not available in English, I am attempting a translation:

"Kiltgang refers to the courtship behavior of young men, regulated by custom especially in rural regions, according to which they visited nubile girls at home at night, either individually or in groups, either by entering their chambers or by gathering in the parlor. The admission was often demanded with disguised voice, well-set speeches or special phrases. Nightly rivalry fights belonged to the typical appearance ... Towards foreign kilters mostly intolerance prevailed ..."

Zwischenflüh is still a very rural area and about 5 miles from the church in Diemtigen. I assume that the Kiltgang of Jakob Kunz rather followed the above description ;-)

The solution to the G...weiber problem is a little more complex. It should be read "Genisstweiber" and has to do with the legal discrimination of illegitimate children. In the above-mentioned lexicon, the following excerpt can be found in the chapter on illegitimacy (https://hls-dhs-dss.ch/de/articles/016112/2008-01-22/; second half of the third paragraph):

"... In den meisten kantonalen Gesetzgebungen hatte sich eine nicht verheiratete schwangere Frau bei einer Amtsstelle selbst anzuzeigen oder musste bei der Geburt von der Hebamme angezeigt werden. Die Eltern wurden verhört, meist jedoch nur die Mutter. In mehreren Kantonen musste sich die Frau dem während der Geburt stattfindenden Geniessverhör unterziehen. ..."

"... In most cantonal legislations, a pregnant woman who was not married had to report herself to an official office or had to be reported by the midwife at the time of birth. The parents were questioned, but usually only the mother. In several cantons, the woman had to submit to interrogation, which took place during the birth. ..."

On the Internet I found a very informative article on the Geniessverhör/Genisstverhör (https://www.rex-buch.ch/pdf/770e54419533fb0f1469451c6b295de.pdf) The long article short:

"Genisst" derives from the German verb "genesen" (= to recover) and means that the mother has recovered from pregnancy with the birth of the child.

The reason for this interrogation was that the state wanted to give out social funds only to those who were entitled. An unmarried pregnant woman therefore had to disclose the name of the producer, even under pressure if necessary. This pressure could most easily be generated at the time of strongest contractions.

For this reason, the court appointed Maria Wampfler and Maria Hirschi as 'Genisstweiber' and assigned them to conduct this interrogation.

BTW: Maria Hirschi lived 'im Boden zu Zwischenflüh' which is the neighboring home of Jakob Kunz ...

GregWidmer

Thank you Daniel for the information you provided. It is very helpful.

Greg Widmer