Manx history questions re: the Isle of Man's McElroys
I was asked to identify, as best as possible, the correct family clan and its associated tartan for the McElroys. The general name-based info pages saying the name pre-dates the Irish-Scottish split don't appear to reflect this branch's genealogy via the northeast of the Isle of Man. I'd appreciate any info to get me pointed in the right direction.
I've followed GMJZ-WYL (Thomas McElroy) born in 1477, to his grandson who married the similarly-named LK5W-RMM (Mrs. Catherine McGilurey) in the Isle of Man, through GH2Y-SC5 (Jon McIlrea) born in 1646 on the Isle of Man, to L89K-J6J (Hugh McElroy) born in Scotland in 1682 who married an Irish Esther, and their son LVP7-X2P (James McElroy) born in Northern Ireland in 1705, to his son LHXX-MMC (John McElroy) as the first-born in the US in 1729.
Would these Manx have belonged to a clan? How do they fit into the generic McElroy narratives? Any help would be appreciated.
Commenti
-
Hello @Christina6056
Thank you for asking your question and providing links to the various people you are referring to.
The years you are referring to are difficult from a family history perspective, as official records had not commenced at this time and the other records, in particular church records, are scant.
I had a look at the pages on FamilySearch for the people you referenced. Unfortunately, few seem to have sources or records attached and to jump from country to country frequently without giving any indication on how the generations in the diverse locations are linked.
If you have access to solid source materials and records, it would be very beneficial to reference these and place images of the records in FamilySearch so that the logic can be understood by all. Unfortunately, fictitious family histories abound and are often more closely related to developing a good story than to supported fact.
In response to your question, my understanding is that McElroy is considered an Irish name, originating towards the south west of the province of Ulster. Tartan in a tradition in the Scottish highlands and worn by people from that area of Scotland. Ireland does not have tartans. In recent years, commercial companies have created tartans which they sell and have named them after Irish families, however, there is no historic basis for a link between a Scottish tartan pattern and any Irish families.
I hadn't previously been aware of and McElroy families on the Isle of Mann. Following your question I have had a look in the records and indeed there are a small number of records with McElroy as an attached name. Looking that those that have been incorporated into the FamilySearch family tree, they seem to have a family origination in Ireland.
Given the above, I would suggest that your best way forward would be to work on developing a solid family tree, well supported by visible records. Then building on that, you will be in a better position to understand your family history.
There are many here who would be delighted to assist you in doing that.
0 -
Thank you @John Curran! That's very helpful!
For this one comment: "Looking that those that have been incorporated into the FamilySearch family tree, they seem to have a family origination in Ireland." How do you make this connection?
0 -
Hello @Christina6056
To try and better explain my comment and how I made the connection to Ireland.....
When I search within the FamilySearch records from the Isle of man for any that are associated with the surname McElroy, the database comes up with 84 distinct records. See below...
Some of these records have already been linked to the FamilySearch Family Tree as indicated by the link symbol shown against four of the records in the clip that I attached, namely the third record (Elizabeth McElroy), the fourth record (Emilia Maria Colquitt McElroy), the sixth record (Ethel Mary McElroy) and the seventh record (William James McElroy).
I then followed several of these entries in the Family Tree back to find the details of the earliest person with attached records.
For the first of those above, Elizabeth McElroy, her family tree goes back to her grandfather Henry McElroy born in 1811 in "Harmanah", Ireland. I suspect this is County Fermanagh, Ireland, particularly as McElroy is frequently found in this region of Ireland, and his spouse is a Maguire, which is the dominant surname in County Fermanagh.
For the second of those above, Emilia Maria Colquitt McElroy, her family tree goes back to her father William Lawrence White McElroy born in 1876 in Douglas, Isle of man.
For the third of those above, Ethel Mary McElroy, her family tree goes back to her grandfather Michael McElroy born in 1831 in Ireland.
For the fourth of those above, William James McElroy, his family tree goes back to his father Lawrence McElroy born in 1798 in Ireland.
I did have a quick look at several others in addition to these four.
So although not a thorough analysis, it was on the basis of this that I made the comment ...... "Looking that those that have been incorporated into the FamilySearch family tree, they seem to have a family origination in Ireland."
0 -
John Curran Ahhh! Thanks! This might seem silly and obvious but I'm just beginning to learn so please bear with me.
The Manx history I found was 1477-1710. If it is accurate, and if there is a connection to be made, wouldn't it be that the Irish you've identified in the 1800s could have Manx lineage and not the other way around?
Here's what I have:
Thomas McElroy (1477 in Isle of Man-1511), married Elizabeth Kissack (1480-?) of Ulster, Ireland.
John McGilrae AKA John McElroy (1500 in "England" [unknown if this is a reference to English rule or to geography]-after 1539), married Eleanor Corlett (1504-1603) in Ballaugh St. Mary, Isle of Man.
Danold McGilrea AKA Donald McElroy (1539 in Ballaugh, Isle of Man-1577 in Ballacooiley, Ballaugh, Isle of Man), married Catherine McGilurey [related?] (~1539-?) of Ballacooiley, Ballaugh, Isle of Man
John McGilrea (1577 in Ballaugh, Isle of Man-after 1625 in Ballaugh, Isle of Man), married Isabel Caroon (1590-1630)
John McIlrea (1605 in Isle of Man-1645 in Isle of Man), married Kathleen Corlett (1605-1637) in Ballaugh, Isle of Man.
William McYlrea (1626 in Ballaugh, Michael, Isle of Man-1710 in Jurby, Michael, Isle of Man), married Ann Christian (1627-1693) in Jurby, Michael, Isle of Man
Jon McIlrea AKA John McIlroy (1646 "England" [again unknown if a reference to English rule]-1685), married Katherine Corjeage (1649-1710) in Kirkmichael, Isle of Man [His mom and dad were born, married, and died on the Isle of Man where he married and had his child as well, so the birthplace seems likely to be a reference to rule and not to geography.] He moved to Scotland.
Hugh McElroy (1682 Galloway, Scotland-1744 PA, USA), married Esther McDowell of Ulster, Ireland (1675-1716). He apparently moved from Scotland to Ireland, had a child, and then they moved to the US. "Tradition has it that, 'All McElroy's in County Down are descended from 3 brothers from Scotland at the time of persecutions.' One of these is Hugh, who bought a tract of land at Kate's Bridge, in the parish of Bally-na-hinch, in the central part of the county, where some of the descendants still reside and there at Bally Roney Church, in unmarked graves, the father's lie sleeping. (Scotch-Irish McElroys in America, Rev. John M McElroy, 1900)"
James McElroy (1705 County Down, Northern Ireland - 1772 VA, USA) Presumably to or through Kirkinner, Wigtownshire, Scotland. "James McElroy was one of the early Virginia Colonists from Scotland and brought his wife with so much tobacco and also paid for his ticket across the Atlantic with tobacco. His wife was Sarah McCune. They were both of Irish Descent and sailed from Belfast, Ireland. They were parents of five sons: John, Archibald, Hugh, Samuel, and James. The father and all five sons served in the American Revolutionary War. (A book from LaClede, Missouri with genealogies of McIlroy Families)"
And then it is all American.
0 -
Hello @Christina6056
I have a strong interest in the McElroy family name, having several people born with that name in my immediate family. So I am very interested in your discussion on those with that name around the Isle of Man and Scotland.
You mentioned.. "The Manx history I found was 1477-1710". I would be very interested in understanding the details this history contains that relate to anyone with a McElroy surname. Is this a document I can access? Do you have the full name of the document?
You asked the question... "wouldn't it be that the Irish you've identified in the 1800s could have Manx lineage and not the other way around?" Well, the people I briefly looked at had documented families going back to an origination in Ireland, not the Isle of Man. That would support the proposition that these were actually Irish people who had travelled to the Isle of Man for work or other economic reasons. Remember that this time period coincides with nationwide poverty in Ireland and famine which killed a substantial proportion of the Irish population. In these same years, many Irish people who were still healthy enough to leave Ireland were emigrating to Australia, Britain, Canada, the US and other places to find work and a means of sustaining life. In these same years, over one million Irish people staved to death and another million emigrated to North America alone. Over the 1800's, Ireland lost more than 50% of its population through either starvation or emigration.
As mentioned in an earlier message, the structure you have built in FamilySearch around GMJZ-WYL (Thomas McElroy) and his descendants is very interesting, but it doesn't seem to be supported by records and jumps from one diverse location to another in a dizzying fashion. It would be wonderful to build out this structure with all the records, sources and facts to support the proposition and give proof to the family tree.
0 -
I didn't build this, just connected to it down at the grandparent level. I just wanted to be able to tell my child his dad's heritage. Being a widow with children doesn't leave much time or money in this stage of life for accessing more than what's readily available.
0 -
I understand better now. I had wrongly thought you had built this area of the family tree.
Helping our children learn as much as possible about their heritage is a great gift to give them. I heartily agree with you there.
This area of the family tree we have been discussing does have some interesting aspects, unfortunately, it also has many dubious connections which don't seem to be well supported by documentation or records.
The best way is always to build back, step by step, assuring yourself that each relationship does have appropriate supporting documentation. If I understand you correctly, you have done just this back to grandparent level.
I have an ongoing interest in several McElroy families through my own close relatives of this name. If you would find it valuable, I would be delighted to try to build back from your grandparent level to see how far the records take us. Do you have the grandparent level already documented in FamilySearch?
0 -
John Curran I'd love that!
I posted Scottish-to-American Hugh and his Irish-to-American son James above which I start with in the image here that goes down the US history to the first grandparent I don't have personal knowledge of being correct, William James McElroy.
This shows movement from NC and VA to TN to TX. It was all already there.
0 -
Then I will have a look at William James McElroy, FamilySearch ID LHFZ-9P5, and the structure currently built back from him.
If I have any questions I will ping you on FamilySearch Chat.
John.
0 -
John Curran That's wonderful!! Thank you!!
0
