Who might be an Uncle?
A few years back I began the search for my great grandfather, Gustav Kardevan. He was born in Velka, Poprad, Austro-Hungary at the time. 1875. Got it.
Coming to the US in 1901, he mentioned that he's staying with his "Uncle" in Philadelphia, on the shipping manifest. Handwriting being what it is, I could not figure out the person/connection.
Until NOW!
His Uncle is Albert Urbany, who came to the US in 1898. (Albert is born 1859, Kesmark) I beg your pardon on the spelling/language, but here are the connections I've been able to make.
The were both leather workers. They both come from villages near Poprad; Velka, Kesmark.
The hard part is connecting the family in the area, during the late 1800's. He may NOT be an Uncle as that might just be a respectful title, but I feel I should give it a try.
Albert marries a Susanna "Breyer" or "Brener" about 1885 (in A-H) and I've been able to find her comments listing her birthplace is Kesmark as well, 1862.
The very hard part is the language, spelling and the fact that some of the church records for this area are "closed" or hard to examine online. Missing letters or variations make searches hard.
Would you kind folks help connect a few family branches, if you can find the time? I sure would appreciate the help. Attached is a passport application for Susanna, which is very helpful with basic info.
I have added what I can to the family tree, but I'm sure the family is larger than what I've added. I try to be cautious. Thanks!
Comments
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Ancestry.com has Pennsylvania death certificates, which may be useful for your research.
Unfortunately, the informant on Gustav's death certificate, Frank Kardevan, did not know the names of Gustav's parents.
The DC for Albert Urbany lists his birth date as 20 March 1860, in Czechoslovakia. Records will usually list the place by the name it is known at the time of death, rather than when the person was born. Albert died 28 April 1926, in Philadelphia. His parents are listed as Ernat Urbany and Susanna Urbany.
https://www.ancestry.com/sharing/32228531?mark=7b22746f6b656e223a22436e4f695236466177654a5476555245736a686b6f524a50463131337863454956774f47737962327a71413d222c22746f6b656e5f76657273696f6e223a225632227dSusana Urbany died 2 Jan 1948, also in Philadelphia. Her parents are listed as John and Marie Brener.
Hope this helps.1 -
Thank you very much!
I've become pretty savvy with Ancestry and FS on the US side, from the late 1800's onward. It's the language and the records of Old Europe that are hard.
Susana vs Susanna vs Suzanna all yield different search results, for example. It think that is just the nature of this work. With records of this age and so many duplicates, I try very hard to not add the wrong people. I want to see the name, town, age, spelling and whatever else I can find to confirm a good relation.
Hence, my quest for a little help.
For example, Albert was born 1859, not 1860 as some docs show. One year off and I could have a cousin or an Uncle in the wrong place.
Thanks again for the help.
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Before 1920: Felka, Szepes, Hungary
RC Felka, GC Vernár, Luth. Felka, Isr. Hunfalu
Now: Velka, part of PopradBefore 1920: Poprád, Szepes, Hungary
other names: Deutschendorf
RC Poprád, GC Vernár, Luth. Poprád, Isr. Poprád and Hunfalu
Now: PopradBefore 1920: Késmárk, Szepes, Hungary
other names: Kézsmárk, Caesariforum, Kasmark, Käsemarkt
RC Késmárk, GC Hodermark, Luth. Késmárk, Ref. Késmárk, Isr. Késmárk
Now: Kežmarok(Note that FS's Places database has the incorrect location for Felka; I have submitted a correction, but it may take a few months for them to get to it.)
Felka was about a mile northwest of Poprád, and as I noted above, it has now been absorbed into that city.
Késmárk is about 8 miles north and a little east of Poprád. Interestingly, Felka and Poprád were among the towns that King Sigismund pawned to his brother-in-law the king of Poland in 1412, but Késmárk was not. (Sigismund was funding his war against Venice. The towns returned to Hungarian administration in 1772, at the first partition of Poland.)
Before civil registration (which began 1 Oct 1895), government vital records were kept by churches, so knowing a denomination would be helpful for determining where to look. As you can see above, all three places had both Catholic and Protestant churches locally, and two of them also had Jewish congregations, so there's no easy answer based on location, and none of the family names you mentioned rule out any of the possibilities.
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Thank you very much for the history! It is a hard thing to sort out when so many names, languages and governments change in such a short time period.
Gustav, my Great Grandfather spoke German and I believe was part of the Lutheran church. Or at least that is where he found a home when he came to Philadelphia. (My grandmother was baptized in a german speaking lutheran church here)
The story is remarkable as I'm sure so many like his are. He marries in Europe—I can only guess it's Poprad—his fist daughter is born Sep 1901, while he is already in the US, with his wife remaining in Felka.
Susanna then comes to the US in 1903 and has their 2nd daughter—my grandmother in 1904.She then takes both my grandmother back to Felka to get her other daughter and bring home a cousin.
My great Aunt, if you will, was born in 1899, in Kesmark and lived to be 105. Susanna (above) had a sister Amelia, who is the mother of my Aunt, above.
She told us all sorts of stories as she claims to remember the trip. However, there is a twist, given the names and ages are only close, but not perfect. I'm not sure I will ever know.
The family story is that one of the girls is an illegitimate child to a Habsburg, who still occupied the castle in Kezmark during the late 1800's
I'm not sure I will ever know, but I would like to figure out the main family, with brothers/sisters, aunts and uncles.
How might I get in touch with the church or a local person there who might be able to help?
What are the chances that they may speak english?
Thanks again!
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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9R7S-PSB?cat=650710&i=458&lang=en&cc=1554443
4948577 459/762
Felka Lutheran baptisms, 1875
Number 9. Born 10 March, baptized 21 March.
Gusztav, legitimate, male
Father: Ludvig Kardevan citizen; Mother: Elisabetha born Pesko; number 167.
Godparents: Fridrich Kardevan joiner/carpenter; Sus. Kardevan; Joh. Kotsisch shoemaker; Susanna Kotsisch.
Officiant: David Emericzy.The area of Szepes county has really only ever been three countries: Hungary before 1920 (going all the way back to the 11th-12th centuries, when the towns were founded), then Czechoslovakia until 1993, and now Slovakia. It's so far north and west that the Ottomans never got within two counties of it, which means that it wasn't subject to the mass depopulation and resettlement of the more southern parts of the kingdom. (Yes, some of the towns were technically Polish property for a few centuries, but that just meant that the landlord was somewhere north rather than south.)
Késmárk was a "free royal city", and as I said, Poprád and Felka were both former Polish pledge-towns. From what I can tell from what Fényes Elek wrote in 1851, the most local landlord (such as there was) was a Tököly. I don't think there were any Hapsburgs closer than Pozsony.
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Thank you so much!
Again, it's confusing for many reasons. While the illegit story is interesting, I take it as myth until I can validate it.
Who would "most likely" be God Parents? An Uncle or perhaps, the Grandparents?
I do know the Gustav has siblings, which are also hard to sort out.
I think the family had a baby boy born 1872, also named Gustav who died shortly before my Gustav was born.
I presume they lived in House # 169 and the baby died March 6th, 1874.
See this record. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GR7S-PWL?cat=650710&i=451&lang=en&cc=1554443
The other twist is that some of these church records are not visible online. For example, I'd like to believe that families are "true groups" but when tragedy strikes, orphans might simply be raised by relatives. Here is my Aunt Amelia, with correct information in all cases, except the father's name. Does Lajos = Gustav?
Gustav's wife was Susanna Vetterany or Vetteraní . I'm sure some of the details below are handwriting/index but it sure makes me wonder.
Again, I am really grateful for the help!
Here also, is a 1910 map of the area that has been very helpful. It shows the villages and has alternate names. In one of the prior photos of Susanna Urbany, she lists Georgenberg as her home village. You can see that here with it's Hungarian name of Szepes-Szombat.
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