My mother's sister Gertrude knows who her father was (Ernest Orders) as although he was not married to her mother Amy Newman ever his name was on Gertrude's birth certificate. My mother Olive 2 years older than Gertrude does not know who her father was and she was named Olive Newman on her birth certificate with blank for the father.

We suspect that Ernest Orders was also Olive's father (it was at the time of WW1 and maybe he can be traced to near where Amy Newman lived at the time of Olive's conception).

Ernest after the War became the common law husband of Amy (he was still married to someone else so couldn't marry her- honestly!) and he brought up Gertrude and Olive from their toddler days. Olive notes that Ernest Orders was always mean to her and favored his acknowledged daughter Gertrude. They both took the name of Orders at the village school but to complicate things more there were two much older brothers (farmworkers at the time) who both went by their mother's name of Newman!

We have DNA results from GGG granddaughters of both Olive and Gertrude and they are matches as would be expected as their GGG grandmother in common is indisputedly Amy Newman. Is there anyway of knowing from the DNA results if any of the match is because they both derive from Ernest Orders? I think not.

In my case Amy is my grandmother and the only thing I do is to look for the Orders name in the trees of any matches. These much younger GGG grandchildren however are convinced they can compare their DNA and determine the same GGG grandfather. I am trying to dissuade them of that possibility and would like some support. Thanks.