Beginning Monday, April 11th the temple category will only be viewable to Church members who must be logged into their member account to see it.
If you have questions about your account, please post in the FamilySearch Account category or contact us via another channel here: https://www.familysearch.org/en/fieldops/familysearch-support-contact-us.
Missing ordinances / incorrectly combined record
I have been working on separating a combined record. It currently shows as Peter Mann LZV5-JXK, but I may change that before you see it. He has an extracted IGI source attached for a Peter Man as the father of Thomas Man. It is a 1753 England Births and Christening record. I could not find and restore this Peter Mann from the change history, as I could some of the others, nor could I find Thomas Man. I have merged the Peter Man records that are for the father of the children born in England. That record is now M3F5-SJK. I had to create a record for Thomas Man, GZT5-R2S.
I restored a Peter Mann LCZF-QPT (not the father of this Thomas) and I see that the christening date for his son, Thomas Mann L4SJ-B57 has the christening date of the one in England and has the source detached from it. That Peter Mann also has the extracted IGI source attached to him. I assume that the ordinances for Thomas Man GZT5-R2S will be found in the record for Thomas Mann L4SJ-B57. Please fix the ordinances for the two Thomases so that they show correctly for each of them.
If it is possible to get the source to show as an extracted IGI record for him and his parents, I would appreciate that also. I tried copying it to the source box, because I thought that was the way to do it and it didn't help. I left it attached to Peter Mann LZV5-JXK and Peter Mann LCZF-QPT so that you can see that it is an extracted IGI record and can move it or tell me how to do it so that it shows that way.
Do not be surprised if the LZV5-JXK record is changed to a different name because the record seems to be primarily Noah Emery. I will be sending more cases on that record, but thought this is a good first step.
Best Answer
-
Peter Man GH5K-YCH is my 5th Great Grandfather. I was going to merge with Peter Mann LZV5-JXK, but discovered that that record is a mess. I am working on that and it is still a work in progress. This case was created because I found a person with an extracted IGI record in all of the mess. I had to create a new record for him, Thomas Man GZT5-R25. I believe that his ordinances are hidden in the record of Thomas Mann L4SJ-B57 and need to be moved.
Here is my reasoning from earlier in this conversation:
There is an extracted IGI record that is attached to both Peter Mann records, Peter Mann LZV5-JXK and LCZF-QPT. It is for Thomas Man, but his record has totally disappeared. If you look at the change history for Thomas Mann L4SJ-B57 on March 11, 2021, the England Birth and Christening record was detached and the christening date 21 JAN 1753 St. Botolph Without Aldgate,London,London,England was removed. If that record had not been detached from him, it would have showed "This extracted IGI record was used to create this person." just like it did on the Peter Mann records.
0
Answers
-
Hi Thanks for your question on community. Since you asked several questions, we will probable enter a couple of different comments.
With respect to record LZV5-JXK. It is really useful to look at the history of the record. There are two ways to do that. Look at the latest changes and then select show all. You then have the options to filter on different parameters. The other way works really well for quick searches. Go to the person page, detail tab, under vital information click edit by the name. On the Edit Name card that comes up, click on see all changes in the lower left. You will now see all changes that have been made to the name. In the case, you will see that this record initially had the name of Noah Emery. That's a clue that perhaps that name needs to be restored and you mentioned this. The name was changed back in Feb of 2016. So this deserves some looking as to why this record got changed from Noah Emery to Peter Mann. As a general rule, it is never a good idea to change a name on a record without an absolutely compelling case to do so. We also recognize that you have already done most of this. We'll continue to look at the rest of your questions
0 -
Hi With respect to Thomas Mann L4SJ-B57, we don't see an evidence that this record was ever merged or mixed with the Thomas Man born in England. That being the case, there would be no reason to expect this record to have the ordinances for the Thomas born in England. What are you seeing otherwise? Like you, we can find no trace for a record of the Thomas born in England other than the new record you created.
With respect to LZV5-JXK for Peter Mann/Noah Emery. It certainly looks like that record was hijacked and made to look like Peter Mann. There is another record for Noah Emery (L563-GHF) that was created July of 2016 a little after record LZV5-JXK was changed from Noah Emery to Peter Mann. You can check the original information in record LZV5-JXK and see that it matches the information on record L563-GHF. The quick way to do this is as we suggested above. Go to the person page, click on the piece of vital information you want to check, click edit, click on see all changes at the lower left. You can do this for any piece of vital information, other information and couple information. Assuming all of that is correct, then we would expect that record LZV5-JXK has the original ordinance information of Noah Emery. So look at that carefully and decide if you should change the record back to Noah and merge with the other record of Noah. In the process you should also check on the wives involved.
With respect to moving the sources, you should be able to do that. Here are a couple of articles about that. Each articles also has links to other articles.
While you are checking sources, you should look at each of the records to see that the source really belong to that record. For example, if you change the record to Noah Emery, there are certainly sources there that belong to Peter Mann
Good luck, when you finish all this, let us know if there are other things we can help with.
0 -
There is an extracted IGI record that is attached to both Peter Mann records, Peter Mann LZV5-JXK and LCZF-QPT. It is for Thomas Man, but his record has totally disappeared. If you look at the change history for Thomas Mann L4SJ-B57 on March 11, 2021, the England Birth and Christening record was detached and the christening date 21 JAN 1753 St. Botolph Without Aldgate,London,London,England was removed. If that record had not been detached from him, it would have showed "This extracted IGI record was used to create this person." just like it did on the Peter Mann records. This article explains what that means: https://www.familysearch.org/help/helpcenter/article/what-does-this-extracted-igi-record-was-used-to-create-this-person-mean
I do intend to change the hijacked record back, move sources etc. The first step was to restore all of the people who were incorrectly merged and I have done that, for the most part at least. I don't want to move the extracted IGI records until the Thomas Man ordinance issue is taken care of. They provide evidence of what happened here.
0 -
RIPoole
I suggest you consider the following article about records that contain more than one person from either merges or incorrect combined records in new FamilySearch. It not only contains information on how to create new records there are some issue where unmerge will not work. Once correct records have been created then you can take action to get ordinances moved to the appropriate records.
I believe the methodology in that article will help you resolve these systems.
0 -
This is the part of that article that I am requesting: FamilySearch has a tool that allows administrators in FamilySearch Support to move ordinances from one person to another in Tree. With this tool, FamilySearch Support can see the information that was present when the ordinance was performed and can get the correct ordinances to display. Please contact FamilySearch Support if you need further assistance to resolve an issue.
0 -
@RIPoole we agree that there are possible ordinances issues with the record of Thomas Mann L4SJ-B57. Your question will be forwarded to a specialty team for review and resolution. You may be contacted by that team if they need to gather more information.
We wish you great success with your family history research.
0 -
Reviewed all the Ordinances for Thomas Mann 1754-1800 • L4SJ-B57
All Ordinances show completed for Thomas Mann.
0 -
I am also concerned with the ordinances for Thomas Man GZT5-R2S, but it looks like this is being taken care of.
0 -
I started this case in July and it was referred to another department on August 31st, but nothing has been done with the ordinances for Thomas Man GZT5-R2S. I had another case that involved moving ordinances and it was completed the next day, so I thought I’d better add a post to this one and see if something can be done, since it has been so long.
I had to create a record for Thomas Man GZT5-R2S, who had been created from an IGI source, because he was hidden inside the record of Thomas Mann L4SJ-B57 and there was no record to restore (a combined record). I assume the ordinances are there also, because the christening source, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NL22-7K3?from=lynx1UIV7 was detached from him. It still shows as an extracted IGI record in the sources of Noah Emery LZV5-JXK. That record had been hijacked, changed to Peter Man, and merged with Peter Man LCZF-QPT. When I restored the LCZF-QPT record, that source was attached to it also, but someone has removed it in the time since I started this case, and changed a whole lot of things in that record. I haven’t had a chance to sort all of that out, but I would like someone to move the ordinances for the Thomas Man born in England to him. I have put that family together, with the siblings, all of whom also had extracted IGI records. The father is Peter Man M3F5-SJK.
I may have to totally recreate the family for my Peter Man, which I had partially done already with Peter Man GH5K-YCH. I only mention that because with the state the records are in now, it would be difficult to show my relationship to Peter Man and why I was working on this in the first place. As you can see, Peter Man GH5K-YCH is my fifth great-grandfather and lived in New Hampshire, not England.
0
