"Colored School" Censuses vs. US Censuses
I'm finding many people listed in the "Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913" who are marked as "white" in the "United States Census, 1910" so I'm seriously perplexed.
Do the "Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913" include other schools as well? Was it mislabeled? Did children from poor or sparsely populated areas also attend the "colored" schools?
Any help would be much appreciated.
Answers
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@Shannon Marie Murphy
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Shannon
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As an aside ...
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I am "Tagging" this (General) 'Question' of yours in this "Community.FamilySearch" Forum, to some specific 'Groups' in the Forum being:
(1) "Kentucky Genealogy Research"; and,
(2) "Southern States Family History Research"
...... [ which includes, Kentucky ]; and,
(3) "United States Genealogy Research"
in the hope that, the members of those groups may be able to answer/assist you.
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Those Groups, are "Public", which you can join, if you wish.
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Brett
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@Kentucky Genealogy Research
@Southern States Family History Research
@United States Genealogy Research
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@Shannon Marie Murphy
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Shannon
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I just did a quick check ...
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For starters ...
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Here is the "Collection" in 'FamilySearch':
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Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/3491880
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Here is an "Article" in the 'FamilySearch' "Wiki":
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Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses - FamilySearch Historical Records
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Externally ...
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Reinette Jones & University of Kentucky Libraries
Notable Kentucky African American (NKAA) Database
African American Schools in Livingston County, KY
https://nkaa.uky.edu/nkaa/items/show/2875
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Brett
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Thanks! I'm a newbie so I'm still finding lots of little nooks and crannies.
As it happens, I did find these resources as I was tearing my hair out the other day. None of them explains the "white" and "colored" discrepancies between the two censuses. But I'm seeing it applied to many others listed, so there has to be an explanation.
I did join all three of the groups you suggested. I'll also try emailing someone at NKAA. I hope this background can be found.
In the meantime, I'll plug away at a page-by-page viewing of the 800+ page School Census file to see if any clues pop up. But I suspect my answer has more to do with the institutions involved than the document itself.
This is exciting!
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😀
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Mystery Solved! It sure pays to do a deep dive into big documents when oddities emerge. I hope this helps someone else.
In a nutshell, several different sets of documents were filmed together as two separate files, each having the same title. Also, given the types of content, the Family Search source title only reflects some of the sets within those files. Hilarity ensues!
The Family Search source title seen when attaching this source may cause some confusion when it displays “Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913” for the following source:
Film # 008675038
Catalog Record: School census, 1898-1913
Film/Digital Note: 1906-1913 - Colored 1910-1913
Contains (as per the Title Target pages in the film):
“School Census Enumeration Book #4” starting at image 10
“School Census Enumeration Book” images 339 to 671
“School Census Enumeration Book (Colored)” images 672 to end of roll 707
Another similar situation exists with the second file which displays the same Family Search title, “Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913”
Film # 008578192
Catalog Record: School census, 1898-1913
Film/Digital Note: 1898-1906 - Colored 1898-1909
Contains (as per the Title Target pages in the film):
"School Census Enumeration Book #1 (Colored)" starting at image 8
"School Census Enumeration Book (White)" images 175 to 422
"School Census Enumeration Book" images 423 to 749
"School Census Enumeration Book #3" images 750 to the end of roll 1081
I can understand that the microfilm files were scanned to incorporate broader data and that the distinctions between included sets of documents isn’t visible on individual pages, and they probably can’t/shouldn’t be broken apart. So, is there some way to recommend that the source title be changed to more accurately reflect the broader content?
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I don't know if anything can be done from FamilySearch's side but you can always edit a source. Go to the source in the person's list of sources and click on edit. Change the title to remove Colored from it and then save your changes after adding a note in the reason statement for why you did this.
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I think the question is not how to edit anything - BUT why there is an apparent discrepancy. If this really is a "Colored Census" why are the results as Shannon finds them?
I wonder what percentage of the records are like this.
One scenario are mulatto families - who may have been classed as colored for schooling purposes - but for which a census taker - because of their light perplexion listed them as white. I have seen cases of this on the federal censuses.
I am also loping in the African American group.
@African American Genealogy Research
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That was my first thought, too! Not yet knowing much about the history of the region, I even considered the possibility that small, poor, rural communities might have combined the records without distinction.
But, after reviewing the total contents of the files, it became clear that the Enumeration Books were put together without a standardized naming conventions and applying ambiguous Film/Digital Notes that were misconstrued when titled by Family Search.
The experience has definitely taught me to go through documents (yes, even the really big ones) for what may be important details!
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Thanks! I'll do that for sure. But the citation will still always read "Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913" for anyone citing it. It's too bad this can't be corrected. I'm sure it would save folks a lot of time!
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Im going to try and contact the "catalogers"
and see if they can chnage the name under which it was cataloged.
(if you can help me with specific examples of why and how you feel the entity is misnamed).
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If the catalogers would be able to change the Family Search title, “Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913", that would be the ideal solution. Being new to this, I just don't know how it should be changed or the ramifications. Maybe “Kentucky, Livingston County, School Censuses, 1898-1913 (colored and white school Enumeration Books)"? I wouldn't want to hinder anyone's search, but a nomenclature indicating multiple sections would let users know to look within the file to find out which Enumeration Book contains their data.
What information can I gather for you? I tried to be as detailed as possible with my "Mystery solved!" post. Please let me know what else I can gather that might help.
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you gave a good over all summary
but the catalogers wouldnt change this without direct proof and explicit examples of why we are suggesting what we do.
links to specific pages and specific people and specific examples . . .
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I’ve got six family members in multiple locations across two files. So, if I would need to detail each one, it will take some time and I don’t think that would be worth it just for my own purposes if I just change the title that is visible to me in my source lists. But if supplying that kind of detail would fix the problem for others using the files, I would happily do it. I just doubt that is the case.
At any rate, here are some examples:
Bryant E Wilkerson (Bryant E Wilkerson 1868 – 24 September 1960 • LBWH-1J)
Appears in the “Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913” (Film # 008675038)
Page Number: 604
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4VNC-MZPZ)
This title is inaccurate because the section in which he appears does not contain a “Colored School Census”.
Rosie C Wilkerson (Rosa Catherine Wilkerson 18 July 1892 – 13 March 1985 • LBWH-X2H)
Appears in the “Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913” (Film # 008675038)
Page Number: 604
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4VNC-MZT2)
This title is inaccurate because the section in which she appears does not contain a “Colored School Census”.
Bettie L Wilkerson (Bettie L Wilkerson 20 March 1894 – Deceased • GSC3-92V
Appears in Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913 (Film # 008578192)
Page Number: 188
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4KBN-7GT2)
This title is inaccurate because the section in which she appears does not contain a “Colored School Census”.
Bettie L Wilkerson (Bettie L Wilkerson 20 March 1894 – Deceased • GSC3-92V
Appear in the Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913 (Film # 008675038)
Page Number: 110
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4N89-XW3Z)
Is this what is required?
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Hello Shannon,
I'm happy that someone in the answers is going to mention this. Your point is well taken.
Many times things are changed on FamilySearch Family Tree according to how many people notice the problem, and how many report it with clarity.
At the bottom of this page and all others on Family Tree, is a Feedback button. You can select that and describe the issue and send it up. They do look at these.
Your point is good.
Luck,
Anitra
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Thank you. I will make use of the feedback link and hope others do as well.
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Thank you Dennis. I've also been advised, in another group, to post to the "IDEAS" Forum and will do that as well.
Here are some of the details from my specific situation, keeping in mind that this issue will affect everyone who uses these sources:
The Family Search source title seen when attaching this source may cause some confusion when it displays “Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913” for the following sources:
Film # 008675038
Catalog Record: School census, 1898-1913
Film/Digital Note: 1906-1913 - Colored 1910-1913
Contains (as per the Title Target pages in the film):
“School Census Enumeration Book #4” starting at image 10
“School Census Enumeration Book” images 339 to 671
“School Census Enumeration Book (Colored)” images 672 to end of roll 707
The same situation exists with the second file which displays an identical Family Search title, “Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913”.
Film # 008578192
Catalog Record: School census, 1898-1913
Film/Digital Note: 1898-1906 - Colored 1898-1909
Contains (as per the Title Target pages in the film):
"School Census Enumeration Book #1 (Colored)" starting at image 8
"School Census Enumeration Book (White)" images 175 to 422
"School Census Enumeration Book" images 423 to 749
"School Census Enumeration Book #3" images 750 to the end of roll 1081
Though not a complete list, here are some examples of the data matching as concerns some of my family:
Bryant E Wilkerson (Bryant E Wilkerson 1868 – 24 September 1960 • LBWH-1J)
Appears in the “Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913” (Film # 008675038)
Page Number: 604
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4VNC-MZPZ)
This title is inaccurate because the section in which he appears does not contain a “Colored School Census”.
Rosie C Wilkerson (Rosa Catherine Wilkerson 18 July 1892 – 13 March 1985 • LBWH-X2H)
Appears in the “Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913” (Film # 008675038)
Page Number: 604
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4VNC-MZT2)
This title is inaccurate because the section in which she appears does not contain a “Colored School Census”.
Bettie L Wilkerson (Bettie L Wilkerson 20 March 1894 – Deceased • GSC3-92V
Appears in Kentucky, Livingston County, Colored School Censuses, 1898-1913 (Film # 008578192)
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Thank you! Someone else just pointed that out to me as well. I've now posted the issue that forum and included details.
It's so nice to get all this help!
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Yeh - the issue here is - it is not an issue for the developers or engineers
it is a needed correction by the catalogers - and Im not real sure what the best way to go to them direct.
Lets see what happens when you get responses from Ideas or Feedback
and then if that doenst work we can see what other avenues there are.
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@Dennis J Yancey there is a TON of mislabeled stuff ... I find stuff that’s labeled for a certain location and when I start browsing the records, it not only isn’t the location listed in the title, but a different STATE all together! Then I’ll find a group of records labeled as auto registrations or something and it when you stay browsing the images you’ll see it’s cemetery record or naturalization record or anything BUT what’s it’s labeled as ... the records themselves are labeled correctly but the clickable titles are all over the place! I find this mostly within the “historical images” collections ... I was so bad that I had started keeping a written record of what was really what and when to find it but I got so frustrated that just stopped ... and now I absolutely refuse to even bother trying to look at them ... I waste more time digging through the wrong records that it’s just not worth the headache I’ve mentioned it a few times and contacted every one possible asking if they would allow us to fix them when we find those kinds of problems but i never could get a clear answer from anyone:/
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yeh - its a tricky balance between - letting automated processes try and figure out on their own certain things using AI techniques and getting this done very quickly - versus a totally human process - that may take forever . . .
and its hard to get fixed because its not the fault of the engineers or developers - who are the main ones monitoring these groups.
there are literally billions of of items and no where near the number of people to do things totally manually
its a mater of how to best move forward in an incredibly massive project - with a limited amount of people and resources.
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