what would the christening date be for a child BIC?
Answers
-
A child that is Born in the Covenant (BIC) of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints usually doesn't have a christening date from another religion.
0 -
@LRHalpin LRHalpin
.
FYI
.
Just my thoughts ...
.
For a Members of the Church, for a "Child of Record", that is BIC ...
[ Who are often, "Named and Blessed" ... ]
.
There is NO, 'Right'; or, 'Wrong'; so, NO need for anyone to agree or disagree ...
.
This is "Personal" CHOICE ...
.
You can do the following:
.
In the "Vitals" Section, under "Christening" ...
.
Simply, "Add" the "Prefix" of, "Named and Blessed," to, BOTH, the 'Date' and 'Place' Fields of the "Christening".
.
BOTH, 'Date'; and, 'Place", CAN still be "Standardised", with that "Prefix".
[ You simply DO NOT get the "Map" 'Pin', which is NOT necessary, anyway ... ]
.
You can, if you wish, add some "Text", in "Reason Statement", to the effect ...
"Born, a Child of Record, into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints"
Plus, if you wish ...
"Born in the Covenant"
And, I suggest that you do ...
.
There is no real need to do the aforementioned, if you do not want too; but, if you wish, you certainly can, the option is there.
.
Again, the aforementioned is "Personal" CHOICE.
.
Of course, at a later date, when the individual/person (ie. Child), later passes away, some 'well meaning' User/Patron (eg. Descendant), may come along and "Remove" that "Prefix"; as, they do not like it - again, that is "Personal" CHOICE.
.
Just my thoughts.
.
Brett
.
0 -
I'd leave it blank. The BIC designation is unrelated to a Catholic Christening/baptism.
0 -
Brett, you're right. There are a lot of denominations where a Christening/child baptism type of ordinance would make sense.
On the other hand, while one could think of BIC as being a similar kind of thing, it would be redundant and confusing to most users to put the child's birthdate in the christening column in order to represent BIC. Since we have millions of users using the same system to build this tree together, having consistency on what things mean is important.
I would still strongly recommend leaving Christening blank for BIC children.
0 -
@Randy Wilson
.
Randy
.
That is what I like about "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' ...
Its 'Flexibility' in this respect ...
.
There is, NO, 'Right'; or, 'Wrong' way, in regards to THIS particular circumstance/situation ... it all 'boils down' to "Personal" preference (CHOICE) ...
.
Neither, you; or, I, is right or wrong ...
.
That is WHY, from the 'Outset', I indicated that my thought, was a matter of personal choice - take it; or, leave it - it matters NOT in the (Great) "Scheme" of things.
.
The "Reasons" that I suggest what I, do; and, have done, is as follows:-
.
(1) Despite, the provision for, the Recording of, "Naming and Blessing", on the Membership Records, of Members of the Church, there is NO provision for that "Naming and Blessing", from Membership Records, appearing in "Family tree" of 'FamilySearch'.
.
(2) "Naming and Blessing" is NOT considered an "Ordinance"; as, such, does not and will not, appear in the "Ordinances" 'Tab' of an individual/person, in the future, when they are "Deceased"; but, it is WHAT we DO in Church, as a "Religious Rite" (ie. established, ceremonial, act).
.
(3) There is MUCH conjecture in the World; as, to WHAT "Christening"/"Baptism" actually is/are amongst various Religious denomination.
[There is NOTHING definitive'; as, the 'Context' varies between Denominations]
Lets, NOT, get into that ...
.
As such ...
.
(3) WHY cannot we; as, Members of the Church, in this day and age, who DO "Name and Bless" our "Children of Record"; as, they are NOT "Christened" in OTHER Denominations; as, a (Religious) 'Rite of Passage', record that EVENT; as, that is what we DO in Church, on a (Fast and Testimony) Sunday; which can be considered; as, a FORM of "Christening"?
.
In fact, we certainly CAN, if we so desire ...
.
(4) "Naming and Blessing" COULD be INCLUDED in the "Other Information" Section; as a, "Custom", 'Event', if one so desires; but, WHY do WE, as Members of the Church, have or need to "Hide" such down in the "Other Information" Section; as a, "Custom", 'Event' - We DO NOT.
.
"Baptism" was ONCE, a PREDEFINED, 'Event' in the "Other Information" Section; but, has SADLY been subsequently (recently) "Removed", as such - for whatever reason/purpose.
.
(5) "Naming and Blessing" recorded as "Christening" would, NOT, be "Confusing" to Users/Patrons, who are NOT Members of the Church, PROVIDED, there was a "Reason This Information Is Correct" as to the WHAT and WHY.
.
On the same token ... "Christening"/"Baptism" (and, other such Religious, "Rites of Passage") in regards to OTHER Denominations are "Confusing" to me; but, I do not mind such being recorded. WHY should Users/Patrons that are not members of the Church, mind US recording "Naming and Blessing" as "Christening" - in 'FamilySearch'; as, 'FamilySearch', was created; and, is maintained, by the Church, specifically (but, now, not, solely) for Members of the Church.
.
Now ...
That said ...
.
Although, "Consistency" would be good ...
[ But, as to the matter at hand ... ]
There is NO, real, true, direction ... certainly NOTHING that is "Policed" ...
There are "Loose" Guidelines; but, they are ONLY a guide ...
"Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' is Built on a "Open-Edit" Platform ...
Thus, "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch' is VERY "Flexible" ...
.
So ...
.
As to the matter at hand ...
Please DO NOT reference "Consistency" ... in this ... that does not wash ...
NOTHING is really "Consistent" ...
User/Patrons DO what they, LIKE; and, WANT ...
Most DO NOT "Care" as to WHAT is the ('Considered') NORM ...
IF, it 'Works'; &, is NOT in VIOLATION of the "Code of Conduct"; THEN, all's well.
.
In conclusion ...
.
Personally, I would strongly recommend, that Members of the Church, whose Children are "Names and Blessed" can, if they so desire:
In the "Vitals" Section, under "Christening" ...
"Add" the "Prefix" of, "Named & Blessed" to, BOTH, the 'Date' & 'Place' Fields.
Plus, as the "Reason Statement", something like: "Born in the Covenant, a Child of Record, into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints"
IF, they WISH ... as, there is NOTHING wrong with doing so.
.
Please, NO more on this, let the poster "Decide" to DO, what THEY so desire ...
.
Lets beg to differ ...
Each to their own ...
.
Just my thoughts.
.
Brett
.
ps:
.
ANYWAY, later on 'down the track' (possible years later) ...
Some (Other) User/Patron MAY come along; and, "Change" everything ...
NOTHING is 'Set in Stone/Concrete' ...
.
0 -
I think we might be talking past each other, because there are two different things being discussed here: (1) BIC, and (2) Naming & Blessing.
The first, BIC, is what I was saying didn't make sense to put in Christening. The only date and place for a "BIC" event is the birth itself, which is already recorded in "Birth", and is already well understood by everyone; and the fact that they were born in the covenant is already captured on the Ordinances tab. So repeating that in the Christening ordinance doesn't help and would just be confusing.
On the second, though (naming & blessing), I can see what you're saying. This is quite a bit like the naming that occurs as part of a Christening. If someone put the date and place of the naming & blessing that happened for the infant, and put in the reason statement that this was a naming & blessing, then I would understand what someone did there.
That being said, Christening will still be understood by many users to mean infant baptism (and, in fact, the Spanish UI says "bautismo", since there is no separate word in Spanish for "Christening" that works there). Using "Blessed & Named" as a prefix in the date and place could be done, of course, but would cause date and place to not be interpretable by the system, probably resulting in a "research suggestion" that says to fix them. The need to do this is a big red flag that one type of event is being used to really represent another type.
The normal way of representing an event that isn't one of the standard 4 "vital" events is to go down to "Other Information" and adding it there. You can add a "custom event", and in the description put "Named & Blessed", and then put the date and place. That would be a straightforward way of representing this, and would be using the system in the way it was designed, which would be most likely to communicate to other users what you're saying.
Thanks for your attention on this. As Information Architect for FamilySearch, I'm often involved in discussions about event types, what they mean, when another one is "close enough" to re-use it vs. different enough to need a new one, and so on. Your insights have been helpful to better understand this one.
0
