Three historical civil registration records
Hello,
I am researching my family history and found three historical civil registration records on FamilySearch that may relate to the same Guaceroni family:
Vicente Guaceroni:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSXD-7JCF?lang=en
Domenica Guaceroni:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSXD-QJ24?lang=en
Judith Guaceroni:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSXD-7JCJ?lang=en
I believe Vicente and Domenica may be Judith's parents, based on other family records, but I would like to verify this from the original documents.
There is also an unusual relationship in one of the FamilySearch indexes involving Judith Guaceroni and Eleonora Guaceroni, where Eleonora is shown as Judith's "wife" and Vicente and Domenica are shown as Judith's "father-in-law" and "mother-in-law." This does not appear to reflect the actual family relationship, so I suspect there may be an indexing or relationship-assignment error.
The records are from Brazil, Minas Gerais, Civil Registration, 1820–2021. When I try to view the images, FamilySearch says that they are available only at a FamilySearch Center or an affiliated library.
I would particularly like to see the original documents to determine:
- the actual relationships between Vicente, Domenica, Judith, and Eleonora;
- Vicente and Domenica's parents;
- their places of birth and nationality;
- and any other genealogical information contained in the original records.
Could someone with access to these images please help me check them? If the images cannot be shared, a transcription of the relevant information would also be extremely helpful.
Thank you very much for your help!
Answers
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@Patrick4,080
Good morning. The 3 URLs you posted all lead to the same record. All lead to the same images on the same DGS: Images 196-197 on DGS 8157971, Item 10.
Judith Guaceroni is the principal; Vicente and Dominica are her parents. Vicente and Domenica are listed as Italian.Judith's spouse is Moretto Nicolau do Carino, whose parents are Emilio Nicolau do Carino and Purcina Isabel de Jesus.
There is no "Eleonora" in the record. That is a misinterpretation by the handwriting OCR of the word "Electoral" in a margin note.
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Thank you very much for checking the records and clarifying the relationships.
Since you confirmed that Judith Guaceroni is the principal, Vicente and Domenica are her parents, and that Vicente and Domenica are listed as Italian, I would especially like to see the original record.
Would it be possible for someone with access to DGS 8157971, Item 10, to provide screenshots or photographs of images 196 and 197, where Judith's record appears?
I would like to examine the original handwriting and all the information in the document, especially the details regarding Vicente and Domenica's places of birth, nationality, parents, and any other genealogical information recorded there.
Thank you again for your help!
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@Patrick4,080
Unfortunately, Community guidelines do not permit us to share images from limited-access records.
An extract or transcription is all that is permitted. I've supplied the essentials; the record is 3 pages of very densely written Portuguese.While I was at the library, I also deleted the reference to Eleonora since it was a misinterpretation. That should disappear from searches soon.
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Thank you very much for taking the time to check the record and for explaining the FamilySearch restrictions. I really appreciate your help.
The confirmation that Vicente and Domenica are listed as Italian is very important for my research. I also appreciate you correcting the “Eleonora” misinterpretation.
Since the record is very densely written, if possible, could you provide an extract or transcription of the sections that mention Vicente and Domenica, especially their parents, places of birth, dates of birth, and any other information concerning their Italian origin?
Thank you again for your time and for helping me understand this record.
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@Patrick4,080
As far as I can determine, the document does not specify where in Italy Vicente and Domenica were born.Their dates of birth are listed as 1 October 1868 for Vicente and 25 January 1864 for Domenica.
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Thank you very much for your help and for taking the time to check the record. The information you provided, especially their dates of birth and confirmation that Vicente and Domenica were listed as Italian, is already very helpful for my research.
I really appreciate your assistance. Have a great day!
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Dear Patrick 4,080,
I will be going to a FamilySearch Center soon. I will try to find that, get a screenshot for you, and save it into sources for the person pages for those people.
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@MrsLCJ
Thank you very much for offering to check the record.
I have actually found what appears to be Vicente Guaceroni’s marriage record in Italy. It is under the name Vincenzo Guazzaroni, married to Domenica Filippi (also italian) on 19 April 1892 in Loreto. The record also gives his parents as Antonio Guazzaroni and Annunziata Ceccarelli. It appears that his name was later altered when he arrived in Brazil.
So, at this point, I would mainly like to clarify Judith Guaceroni.
If you are able to access the record at the FamilySearch Center, could you please check whether Judith's record contains any additional information that could help establish connection.
Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it!
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@Patrick4,080 What more do you hope to learn about Judith Guaceroni? As I explained when I downloaded the record several days ago, she is listed as the daughter of Vicente and Domenica.
Of course, I kept a copy when I downloaded it.
Judith was born 27 November 1906 in Belo Horizonte and is listed as the legitimate daughter of Vicente and Domenica.2 -
I have had the opportunity to view the marriage record from which @Áine.ní.Donnghaile so kindly accessed and extracted the aforementioned data.
I see where it says that Judith was born 27 November 1906 in Belo Horizonte (Minas Gerais) Brazil as Áine mentioned.
Using that info, I found this index entry (which was obviously poorly transcribed):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6Z3S-VBN9
You will need to access the actual birth record at an FSC or AL, but I believe even the index establishes the connection you are seeking.
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@SantaNinfa @Áine.ní.Donnghaile
I have actually already found Judith's death record, which confirms her parents, Vicente Guaceroni and Domenica, and I have also found additional details about them.
At this point, I am mainly looking for Judith's marriage record. I would like to examine the original record and any additional information it may contain, mainly to confirm the family relationships and complete this branch of my family tree.
I will probably need to visit a FamilySearch Center or an affiliated library myself to access the original record.
I have been working on this family line here:
https://www.familysearch.org/pt/tree/pedigree/portrait/G9BR-KFV
Thank you for all your help and for taking the time to investigate these records!
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@Patrick4,080 I have put one of 8 images of the record you needed to see, in as a source, including link. I have put 8 images of the record in "Memories" of Domenica Filippi. Is this the correct record you sought? If you would like me to delete the images from the person page, let me know in the chat for her person page.
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Patrick clearly stated in this thread that he already had the marriage document for Vincenzo and Domenica, when he wrote:
_______
I have actually found what appears to be Vicente Guaceroni’s marriage record in Italy. It is under the name
Vincenzo Guazzaroni, married toDomenica Filippi (also italian)on 19 April 1892 in Loreto. The record also gives his parents asAntonio Guazzaroni and Annunziata Ceccarelli. It appears that his name was later altered when he arrived in Brazil.So, at this point, I would mainly like to clarify
Judith Guaceroni._______
Your posting of their marriage record, broken up into multiple unusable images, was not requested, and it ruins the Memories section of Domenica's profile which now looks awful.
If one wanted to post the image (which is unnecessary, because it is not restricted), one would download the FULL image and upload it as a complete image with the corresponding URL: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9Q3-3KSN
Lastly, what Patrick clearly stated he was looking for was the limited access image for Judith's marriage in 1926, referenced here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSXD-7JCJ
And, as Áine kindly reminds us, posting that image to Memories for anyone would be a violation of FS Guidelines.
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@MrsLCJ @Patrick4,080 I understand how helpful those images can be for your research. Unfortunately, we are not able to provide or share restricted images from FamilySearch. These restrictions are in place to honor agreements and other laws. Copyright issues may be involved.
Hopefully you can visit a FamilySearch Center near you. Try the link below.
FamilySearch Center Locator : https://locations.familysearch.org/en
It is indeed a violation of FamilySearch policy to post these restricted images. Please remove them immediately. @Patrick4,080 has received the information he needed here and is welcome to visit a FSC for more detail. Thank you for your understanding and best of luck in your research.
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I tried to clarify what @MrsLCJ did but the broken up images she posted into the memories of that profile were not restricted. Thankfully, no one in this thread has posted restricted images (which is kind of what this thread ended up being about). And, Patrick has acknowledged and abided by said guidelines.
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@SantaNinfa Thank you for the clarification.
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@Patrick4,080 We got a bit off track, did you receive the answer you needed?
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Possibly, ya'all employees of FamilySearch think that MrsLCJ has no feelings to possibly hurt, as this is online. Even online, unkind discussions about me hurt. Please, begin from now and into the future, to consider a username and think, 'hmm. There is a human behind that username.' I know that since this makes you look bad, you'll just delete my post and make yourselves look good by doing so.
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@MrsLCJ I'm sorry that some of the responses you've received have been hurtful. You're absolutely right that there is a real person behind every username, and everyone deserves to be treated with kindness and respect. We want this community to be a welcoming place where people feel comfortable asking questions, sharing their experiences, and helping one another. Thank you for reminding all of us how important that is.
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