Research help for Eliza Alice "Elsie" Prespare dite Routhier 1851-1928
I have been searching for some records about her, and I could not find anything. Does anyone know something about her? All help is greatly appreciated!
Comments
-
@Benjamin48508
Good morning.
It's helpful to include the PID of the person/profile.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/LD84-4GR1 -
I believe this is her birth/baptism record, from St. Timothee, Beauharnois, Quebec, 24 aug 1852: Elisabeth Routier, daughter Prosper Routier and Marie Bonin.
Prosper Routier married Marie Bonin 12 jul 1831 in Ste Elisabeth d'Autry, they had several children there and later moved to Beauharnois region. Prosper was son of Joseph Routier and Marie Elisabeth Geoffroy. Marie Bonin was daughter of Jean Baptiste Bonin and Genevieve Goulet.
It appears Elisabeth/Elise and her husband Peter Casavant were married 12 apr 1875 in Franklin County, New York, although I do not have documentation for that (do not have quick access to Franklin County records).
The Prespare name appears to be a corruption of Prosper, her father's given name. Prosper Routier was born 20 may 1814 in Ste Elisabeth.
It is important to remember that these people (who likely did not write) were giving their names to people in upstate New York who did not speak or write French. That the "Prespare" name was distinctly passed down speaks (to me) of her decision that her father's name be remembered (my opinion only). Also note that in Quebec, married women did not take their husband's surname; they were born, married and buried in their maiden name (which certainly makes genealogy easier).
Dit names (LaFleur, LaGrande, Beausoleil, etc.) were taken to distinguish one branch of the family from the others. They would often select a word that was meaningful in some way to them. It appears the branch of Prosper's family took Prosper/Prespare. I have not seen yet whether any of Elisa's siblings took it, or just her.
2 -
Thank you so much for your help. This means a lot to me.
0 -
Any records or information on Mary Prespare Unknown-1928 ID: LD8F-1WM
Any records or information on Peter Prespare Unknown- Unknown ID: LD8F-1H4
They were married and had a daughter, Eliza Alice "Elise" Prespare dit Routhier ID: LD84-4GR
All help is appreciated
0 -
Important reference information in this earlier post
https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/189910/research-help-for-eliza-alice-elsie-prespare-dite-routhier-1851-19281 -
Oh, I see these must not be the real parents. Sorry, I'm new to this
0 -
Mod Note: @Benjamin48508 The two posts with inquiries for the Prespare family have been merged into this one post.
1 -
This researcher is also looking for information on one of the children of Elise and Peter, Joseph Napoleon Cassavaw 1879-1936 ID: LD8H-F9P
0 -
Interesting. In the compilation of baptisms and burials of Coopersville, New York (St. Joseph du Corbeau), compiled by Benoit Pontbriand et al, I find:
Joseph Napoleon Casavant (of Sciota), born 4 aug 1880, baptized 8 aug 1880. Parents Pierre and Elise (Routhier). Witnesses/godparents Napoleon Casavant and Marguerite Lapierre.
I also find: Joseph Casavant (of Sciota) born 4 aug 1880, baptized 3 oct 18880, son of Jean Baptiste Casavant and Dilley Clark. Witnesses/godparents: Antoine Lapierre and Maria Migneault.
So there are two Casavant sons born 4 aug 1880, to different parents; both families of Sciota, one baptized shortly after birth (which is typical), one baptized 2 months later. "Joseph Napoleon" was the son of Pierre Casavant and Elise Routhier. Nearly all male French Canadian (Catholic) sons had the first name Joseph, their saint name. (I am looking at a typed transcription of the baptism records so I cannot look at the actual writing to see if the 4 could be something else in either baptism record)
In the 1900 census (ancestry.com), in Bellmont, Peter and Elisabeth Kasavaw have a son, Joseph, born August 1880. I think this is Joseph Napoleon Casavant, born 4 aug 1880 to Pierre/Peter and Elise.
I also note that the WWI draft registration (in ancestry.com) gives Joseph Napoleon Casavaw a birth date of 4 aug 1880. HIs wife is Mary Belle Casavau, living in Chateaugay at that time (1918).
Sciota, NY, is a small hamlet in the northwestern part of the town of Chazy, about 6 miles from the Canadian border. Coopersville (with church St. Joseph du Corbeau - Corbeau being the earlier name of Coopersville) is a nearby town with a long-standing Catholic church that kept good records written by people with knowledge of French language. Thus the parents of Joseph Napoleon would be listed with their french names (properly spelled) while the census, taken by non-French, referred to them by their anglicized names.
Jean Baptiste "John" Casavant/Casavau was a brother of Pierre/Peter. John married Laura Ann "Della" Clark. FamilySearch shows them with a son, Cephus Joseph, born 13 August 1880. FindaGrave shows Cephus Joseph "Steve" Casseveh, born 13 aug 1880, son of John Baptiste Casseveh Jr. and Laura Ann Della Clark. I think this is the Joseph in the Coopersville birth records. He is a cousin of Joseph Napoleon. It appears Joseph Napoleon went by Joseph Napoleon, or Joseph; Cephus Joseph went by Steve in later life. (Cephus was not given in his baptism record)
Looking further: It is possible that the wives of the two cousins may have some errors - I have no documentation supporting the marriage; a Belle and a Mae Belle are similar; I have not researched these; I believe the WW1 draft record stating Joseph Napoleon's wife was Mary Belle.
I hope this is helpful.
2 -
Hi @Benjamin48508.
I answered on your other post that Elise/Eliza died in December 1915 in Chateaugay, not 1928 in Essex, NY. You could consider requesting her death certificate from the Chateaugay town clerk, which could possibly have the names of her parents.
However, from the newspaper article I linked there, we learned that she was an aunt to Paul Prespare and Mrs. Mary Coyne. Their father was Joseph Prespare, who would be Eliza's brother. Interestingly, his 1900 census, like hers, said that he immigrated to the US in 1860.
This is Joseph's 1912 obituary. It specifically mentions his sister "Mrs. Peter Casavan of Chateaugay." It says Joseph was born in Chateaugay, but from his census records, we know that part is incorrect. It also mentioned another sister, Mrs. Joseph Papineau of Chateaugay Lake.
3 -
If we can find Elise's 1860 and 1870 censuses, it may help fill in the blanks. I thought maybe I had a lead, but ultimately wasn't convinced it's correct. It may also help to find her brother, Joseph, on these records. If she really did immigrate around 1860, she would've been very young.
I did find Prosper and Mary's Find a Graves. They were buried in Saint Patrick's cemetery, same as Elise. Haven't found their obituaries yet, however. There is scant information on Prosper's Find a Grave bio, but I'm not sure of the source.
3 -
Looking at the 1851 Canada census, there seems to be a child missing on FamilySearch. I think it says Fabien, born about 1844. On the 1861 Canada census, I found Prosper (Jr) and Joseph, but not the rest of the family. That could align with the reported 1860 immigration.
There's some US censuses that piqued my attention... The family is Canadian-born with matching birth years and close first names. There's a son born about 1844, and a daughter, Elise/Eliza, born about 1853.
The last name is the hesitation. It could be a transcription error, but then there's the death record of "Prespace Ronkey" in 1893. I can't find his obituary. I dismissed the censuses until I saw Amelia's son's marriage record with Rookey as her maiden name:
1860 In Clinton County, which borders Franklin County
1870 I think Prosper (Jr) is on the next page as Peter Rokey?
1875 Living next to Joseph Papineau. Five pages back is Peter again, and 2 houses down from Peter's is Joseph Roukey. The names fit the family of Joseph Prespare.
1880 2 pages back, Joseph Prespare is listed again as Joseph Ranky.Let me know if these look remotely correct or not. 😄
2 -
I see your Fabien in the 1851 census; I do not find any child of Prosper Routier and Marie Bonin named Fabien, nor any Fabien born between 1843-1845 that looks to be a match (any last name). So I don't know who that is, but he sure doesn't seem to be a Routier child born in Quebec that I can verify. (I am searching LaFrance (Drouin Institute) index of births to 1861, checking both by parents and by child name).
I am struggling in FamilySearch to find the correct Routier family going back. I believe Elise Routier is GQFF-P2Q and LD84-4GR. I believe Pierre/Peter Casavant/Casavau is LZJZ-CY2 and GQFN—M42. I am very tempted to merge them (these are my relatives as well) but I don't want to mess up other people working these. If you look at the two different families (the GQFF-P2Q group) you will see the ancestry line going further back. I see some of the names are anglicized and I have not verified the accuracy, but Pierre/Peter and Elise are in the system twice, with different records (and should probably be CAREFULLY merged).
I am unfamiliar with Rokey (etc) but the logic would be similar to Pelletier which became Pelkey in NY/VT, I suspect. That sounds correct. "tier" would be heard as "ey" (and they did the best they could with the sounds that came before).
1 -
@lindastowemiller, I found Saint Patrick's church records. There's an 1873 marriage of Domina Routier, son of Prosper, and Maria Bonin. Damian was recorded as his name when his child was baptized. I don't know if that helps anything. Maybe they had briefly moved to another city in Quebec when he was born?
As to the profiles, I think you're absolutely right that they need to be merged. I think it'll be helpful, actually.
Also, glad I wasn't off track with the other censuses. :) I couldn't quite figure out why it worked but wasn't the same. Thank you for explaining!
1 -
I compiled a list of Elisa's censuses. Some need to be added to her profile, a few are duplicates:
1860, 1870, 1875, 1880, 1900, 1905, 1910, 1915Also, looking through the Saint Patrick's baptisms, I found a Francis Crompe born 1874 to Francis Crompe and Elisa Routier. The witnesses were Prosper Routier and Marie Bonin. He could be "Frank" on her 1875 census, though he's listed under Peter's surname.
Crompe
Francis
23 Oct 1874
29 Sep 1874
Francis & Elisa Routier
Prosper Routier & Maria Bonin
1 -
Hi @lindastowemiller. I attached some of Elise's censuses to the GQFF-P2Q profile. I also merged together the 1900 and 1910 censuses that were otherwise separate. I thought you'd want to do the final merges for all of these profiles after you've checked it over.
I also saw that Peter has a duplicate burial on Find a Grave with an incorrect death date.
1
