Access to locked files (can provide supporting documents)

RamonLojo

Dear All

I am trying to access the marriage investigation records of our ancestors but the file is locked. We have already requested the Archive Custodian (The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Manila) but it is also locked to them. May I kindly request if anyone here can assist me in getting a copy? I can provide genealogical supporting documentation.

Pls feel free to send me a message. Thank you

Áine.ní.Donnghaile

@RamonLojo
Is the record indexed? Did you find an extract in a search in the Philippines Catholic Church records on FamilySearch?
If you did, and can supply the URL or even a screenshot, we can determine where we may be able to view the record(s) and retrieve a copy.

SerraNola

@RamonLojo What year range of records are you trying to access? They are freely available up to 1925:

https://www.familysearch.org/en/records/images/search-results?creator=Catholic%20Church.%20Archdiocese%20of%20Manila%20%28Philippines%29&pageSize=100&recordTypeIds=127680&page=1

Áine.ní.Donnghaile

@SerraNola I was looking just before you posted, and there may some DGS that are incorrectly marked, when viewing from my public account. I'm seeing some that have the notation "Film not available at this time." When I click through the camera icon, I can view the full DGS.

RamonLojo

Hi All, the record is not indexed. It was previously viewable and then retracted. I have the link and the DGS number below:
DGS 7772476 Item 2 (beginning page 528, should be)

Thankyou so much for your assistance..
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSMF-GYCG?cat=koha%3A251621&view=index&lang=en&groupId=M988-8TS&grid=on

SerraNola

@RamonLojo As I mentioned, the records are unrestricted only up to 1925. Item 2 of 7772476 includes records up to 1932 and are thus not accessible. I know this is a disappointment and I regret that I am unable to offer a solution.

RamonLojo

Thank you for the response, Ma'am @SerraNola , it also would not be possible to grant access to the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Manila as custodians of the record, even temporarily ? This would be helpful as I would be needing from them a certification that the marriage investigation file exists in their records. It is to support our application under the Ley de Memoria Democratica.

SerraNola

@RamonLojo

As the custodians of the physical documents, the Archdiocese archive decides who can see them. The terms of our contract that restricts records created after 1925, only applies to our copies.

What is the marriage year for the record you are seeking? The date range for the records on Item 2 is March 1897–April 1932. Perhaps we could help if it is before 1926.

RamonLojo

Hi Ma'am- I believe it should be March 1932. Both bride and groom have passed away- the bride in 1991 in California and the groom sometime before 1945, perhaps during the war. Bride was a widow and remarried in 1945. Most of these death records can be found on FamilySearch- except the first husband's death record.

I really hope there is a way for the RCAM to be able to view and issue a certification for us.

cody85749

https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/187771/access-to-locked-files-can-provide-supporting-documents

Hi Ramon,

If the record is locked even for the Archive Custodian, it usually means the file has restricted access due to privacy, legal, or archival policies—especially for church or civil records.

Unfortunately, regular users or community members can’t bypass that lock. Your best options are:

• Follow up directly with the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Manila and ask if there’s a formal request process or special permission (sometimes requires proof of relation).
• Check if an alternate copy exists (civil registry, local parish, or another archive).
• Ask if they can provide a summary or extract instead of the full record.

Providing your supporting documents is definitely helpful, but access approval will still depend on the archive’s internal rules.

Hope you’re able to get it sorted 🙏

RamonLojo

Hi @cody85749

Thanks for your response. To answer your questions:

• Follow up directly with the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Manila and ask if there’s a formal request process or special permission (sometimes requires proof of relation). I have provided this to the RCAM, everything I have done is 100% according to procedure. They are unable to view the record online because it is locked.
• Check if an alternate copy exists (civil registry, local parish, or another archive). Yes the alternate copy exists, but he cannot find it because he needs the title of the book and the remaining pages to verify where to look. The copies are in a very fragile state.
• Ask if they can provide a summary or extract instead of the full record. Of course yes, but he cannot do it without knowing which book to look into.

SerraNola

@RamonLojo These records have not been filmed from a book. They are loose pages in file folders.

I don't know if it is helpful, but the pages have the number 27 penciled in and the last three digits of the year, such as 932.

m how

@Áine.ní.Donnghaile Your comment got lost in the middle of this thread. Thank you for pointing out that we have films that have "film not available at this time" when they are fully accessible.

I will make the engineers aware of this so it can be removed. This would create confusion for some patrons. Thank you again for helping us to improve FamilySearch.

Áine.ní.Donnghaile

Thanks @m how.

RamonLojo

@SerraNola Thank you, I have relayed the information to the RCAM Archives but I have yet to receive a response, I do not think they are allowed to touch the physical files though.

Adrian Bruce1

@RamonLojo and @SerraNola - if I understand the situation correctly, the RCAM is the controller of the data in question (on all platforms) and they determine who has access to it. For sensible archival reasons, they appear to have prohibited general access to all of the physical paper entries and have been under the impression that the FamilySearch images form a suitable surrogate for their own paper copies. However, the current software and FS processes do not appear to allow the RCAM access to its own surrogate data, even though they are (surely) the controller of that surrogate data.

Can I suggest that one way forward would be for FS to grant RCAM (and only RCAM) full read access to that data for which RCAM is the controller, regardless of record dates? Whether this needs software changes or whether it can be done indirectly via a nominated FS senior staff account, I've no idea. If this is done, then RCAM would be able to answer the query that has been put to them. I suspect that an important point will be whether RCAM are legally obliged to answer such queries under the equivalent of freedom of information rules. If they are, then FS has no reason to stand in their way?

RamonLojo

Hi @Adrian Bruce1 thank you for your message. I agree with your reasoning, and I do think that RCAM would appreciate having an account that would not limit their research. As for us requesters of data, the RCAM asks us to provide relevant information and paperwork as evidence of kinship. Also, these historical data were also written in Spanish- AI translations provided by FS are extremely helpful to extract names, relationships, dates, and places.