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Mariage bann but no actual mariage

Loïc Baert
Loïc Baert ✭✭
March 28 in Family Tree

I have an interesting case: there are two hints on Bartholomé Vasanne (9VRS-M5P) linked to mariage banns between Jean Joseph Vasaune (LTTZ-Y1T) and Marie Antoinette Wilquet (9V5V-RR1). The "problem" is that they never married, how do I represent that in the tree?

Tagged:
  • Family Tree
  • Record Hints
  • Attaching sources
0

Answers

  • Áine.ní.Donnghaile
    Áine.ní.Donnghaile ✭✭✭✭✭
    March 28

    You can attach the hinted source record without creating a marriage event. I would add a Discussion highlighting that the parties did not marry. A Discussion cannot be edited or deleted except by its creator.

    0
  • Loïc Baert
    Loïc Baert ✭✭
    March 28 edited March 28

    If I attach the record, a link will be created between the two parties. How do I show that the link is not a marriage?

    1
  • MDNash79
    MDNash79 ✭✭✭
    March 28

    @Loïc Baert

    I think what you have proven is not that they weren't married, but only that they were making applications to marry. What is missing at the moment may be a document showing the actual marriage date.

    Also, note that in some situations, the bann will list three future dates after which the couple would be considered to be married if no negative evidence surfaced (prior marriages, criminal activity, etc) and then the marriage would be considered finalized and official effective the latest date on the bann record.

    1
  • Loïc Baert
    Loïc Baert ✭✭
    March 29

    @MDNash79 The two parties married other people just after the marriage banns to other people. In their respective death certificates only the people that they actually married show up.

    0
  • Adrian Bruce1
    Adrian Bruce1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    March 29

    @Loïc Baert - these are just suggestions from me that I can't verify in the tree but...

    Firstly any attachments of source records may need to be done in a partial manner to avoid creating non existent relationships as you indicate. In other words, the software may need to be reined in.

    As far as the parents go, any attachments are there simply to show the parentage, so I'm not sure that the issue of the nonexistent marriage actually arises (again, I can't verify this)

    For the two parties to the non existent marriage, I'd explore creating custom events (such as Unsuccessful Relationship) against both the individuals (not against a relationship). The description would need to specify who the other party was. The banns record would then be attached to the individual profiles and tagged to that custom event.

    I am hoping that if you attach the sources one at a time to the individual profiles, then the software will not create the marriage relationship. If it does, then I guess you simply delete the relationship.

    I might be wrong with the above suggestions but that's what I'd explore.

    1
  • Áine.ní.Donnghaile
    Áine.ní.Donnghaile ✭✭✭✭✭
    March 29 edited March 29

    Attaching the source does not create the marriage event on the profiles unless you bring the information over in the Source Linker. You can attach the source separately to each/either of the parties.

    Working in Beta to illustrate -

    image.png

    3
  • Gordon Collett
    Gordon Collett ✭✭✭✭✭
    March 29

    To complete Áine's illustration, to attach the source to Rebecca without creating even the appearance of a possible couple relationship, you would next use the "Change Person" link on the left to make her the focus person on the left. You will then quickly see that the box next to her on the right cannot be blank and you will probably still see Wiley there. You need to click the "Change Person" link on the right and paste Rebecca's ID number in the box that is one of the options there to force her Family Tree record to appear as the focus person on the right so you can attach the source to her while again leaving Wiley only in the left column.

    4
  • Loïc Baert
    Loïc Baert ✭✭
    March 29

    Thank you all for your help! I was able to attach the hints without creating a real connection in the family tree. As suggested by @Áine.ní.Donnghaile, I left a discussion in the two profiles.

    3
  • Gordon Collett
    Gordon Collett ✭✭✭✭✭
    March 29

    Great! As you are probably learning, Family Tree is a very powerful system and often gives you about three ways to accomplish the same task but how to make use of all its wonderful features takes a lot of exploring and the help center articles range from excellent to vague to outdated to missing entirely.

    2
  • Paul W
    Paul W ✭✭✭✭✭
    March 30 edited March 30

    Fortunately, I am finding - especially over the last year or so - that these items are now far more inclined to be labelled / indexed as "Marriage Notices", "Marriage Banns", etc., rather than as a "Marriage". In which case, the data can be carried across, having confidence that it will not be added to the Couple Relationship area. More importantly, it will not take precedence over the actual marriage ceremony (if the date of the notice / banns, etc.) is prior to the ceremony date) and replace it as the display date on the Details (main profile) page.

    It is always worthwhile to check out the "hidden detail" in the Couple Relationship area, as one can often find multiple events there (usually carried across when using the source linking process). As has been discussed previously, it is always the earliest dated "event" that is automatically placed on the Details page, so I often find myself having to delete the items that do not directly relate to a marriage ceremony in order the correct details can be clearly displayed.

    Whilst some users advocate for more items to be carried across by the source linker, I believe we should just note some of the details found, and carry out the more detailed work (after confirming accuracy) upon returning to the individual's profile.

    2
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