Seeking help in locating 19th-century records from a German town
Hello,
I'm trying to find birth/baptism, marriage, and death records from roughly 1800-1880 for my ancestor's family that originally lived in the small town of Ottelmannshausen, Bavaria, Germany. Based on all of the resources I've examined from America - church records, passenger lists, obituaries and census schedules - and DNA testing, this is my theory of how the German portion of the tree looks:
- Caspar Guck married Ana Maria Reichert (all vital dates unknown) and had at least two children:
- George (GVJ8-LSV), who married Catherine Wirsing (GVJ8-PRL) and had at least three children:
Cecilia Guck [Kleeh] (GZS7-YYT), who came to America in 1887 with Mary- Joseph Guck (G7VX-KG5), who came to America in 1890
- Mary Guck [Vogler] (GSS5-RBJ), who came to America in 1887 with Cecilia
- Louis (G365-2PW), who came to America in 1866
- George (GVJ8-LSV), who married Catherine Wirsing (GVJ8-PRL) and had at least three children:
I'm aware that some of this conflicts with FamilySearch's existing tree content, but I don't see how any other lineage would give me the DNA test results that I have. I'd be very grateful if someone could help me determine which catalog records to look at to either prove or debunk my theory.
Answers
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The data quality of much of the Tree is very low. If you have evidence that conflicts with Tree information, feel free to edit the Tree, but please cite your evidence carefully by attaching appropriate sources. If the previously existing FT information has conflicting attached sources, you would do well to collaborate with the relevant contributor, if possible, or at least to add a Note showing your workings. Perhaps the source they have attached should have been on a clearly identifiable different person in the Tree, in which case you should consider moving it to the right place.
To search FS for evidence, I'd start by searching Records, which have structured document level metadata, and then trying Full Text Search, looking at the Catalog last.
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Hi @JG047.
I don't think FamilySearch has this place in their catalog. However, I checked Matricula Online and while Ottelmannshausen didn't have records, I saw that the larger, nearby town of Herbstadt did. I think I found one there for Louis, born Ludwig, as the 4th entry matches the month/year on Louis' 1900 census and most of the data provided.
The German Research group here is an excellent place for research help and translations. If you'd like to continue this research yourself, there are many resources about deciphering the old German script too.
As for proving/disproving, I'd suggest starting with assembling a sourced and carefully researched tree for this family, like @MandyShaw1 said. Keep in mind that there may be more than one family in the area with that surname, so make sure the birthplace and parents match, etc.
Also, any other sources you can find—like newspaper articles about the siblings or their children visiting each other—add to the support. Perhaps you can find naturalization records that have more detailed information, too. If you have DNA matches from these lines, you may want to reach out to them as well. Maybe they have some clues or information.
Hope that helps and good luck!
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The baptismal record referenced above from Herbstadt does not have the same parents as the FS tree. The child is Karl Ludwig August Guck (likely his Rufname was Ludwig/Louis) and the parents from the record are given as Kaspar Guck and Elisabeth Reichert, which match with your information. The record also indicates that the family was living in Ottelmannshausen. Let me do some more digging and see if I can find other siblings to corroborate your information.
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Another child of Kaspar Guck and Elisabeth Reichert
Joseph Kaspar Guck, born in 1834. His baptismal record indicates he was the third child.https://data.matricula-online.eu/en/deutschland/wuerzburg/herbstadt/02250/?pg=60
There is another Guck family: Konrad Guck and Margaretha Haaf. They had children:
Georg Guck born 1827: https://data.matricula-online.eu/en/deutschland/wuerzburg/herbstadt/02250/?pg=49
Margaretha Josepha born 1832: https://data.matricula-online.eu/en/deutschland/wuerzburg/herbstadt/02250/?pg=57
There should be more children, but they are not found in the parish registers of Herbstadt. Maybe need to check nearby parishes.
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Here's the baptism of Joseph Guck in 1866: https://data.matricula-online.eu/en/deutschland/wuerzburg/herbstadt/02246/?pg=150
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Here is the marriage of Georg Guck and Katharina Wirsing. It gives the birth date of Georg as 2 Jun 1827 and his parents as Konrad Guck and Margaretha Hanf: https://data.matricula-online.eu/en/deutschland/wuerzburg/herbstadt/02246/?pg=203
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If you give me a day or two I can start to update the FS family tree with the correct information and put the families together.
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@JG047, I have put together the Guck family from the Catholic Church records in Herbstadt (https://data.matricula-online.eu/en/deutschland/wuerzburg/herbstadt/). The Guck individuals that you reference in your initial post are actually descendants of two brothers: Johann Conrad (PH7X-16C) and Johann Caspar (PH7N-ZW7). I have filled out the tree on FamilySearch with their siblings' and children's information, as well as their parents' information. The sources have been attached to the individuals, too, if you want to see what the original church records look like. The Guck line could be traced further back (the records exist), let me know if you're interested and I'll see what I can do.
-Devon
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Fascinating! I'm surprised to learn that the connection point between my ancestors and the Guck/Wirsing line is an additional generation back than I expected. It's amazing that the two lines still have common DNA to this day with that degree of separation.
Many, many thanks for looking into this and putting everything together. I have close cousins who have been trying to map out our German roots for at least 35 years, but they never had the proper resources to do so. I'm sure that they'll enjoy seeing the results of your research.
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