Hungarian help 1869 census translation
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK8-N38G-H?cat=385993&i=348&lang=en
Mostly interested in family III - the other family are straight forward.
Thanks!
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Family 3
1) Hiskavgina? Maria (Luyako Mihály orog) - because there’s only one birthdate here, and it seems to say “oszvegy” in the column to the right of the birth date, my guess would be that she is Mihaly’s widow. Maybe the orog word is oreg (elder) and means the deceased husband was a “Mihaly Sr.” It’s possible that’s a Cyrillic cursive backwards “R” letter in their name which reads as “ya” in English.
2) Rohaly György (same last name as the other male family heads above)
3) Luyako Anna (same last name as widow above)
4) a young Gyorgy
5) a young Anna
Based on the birthdates, I would guess this is a family made up of a widowed mother-in-law who moved into her son-in-law’s family home (the family head), the son-in-law who belongs to the original household, his wife and their two children.
Other possibilities for the name of the adult women might be Lukho or Luzko.
The untranslated words (bo, nyi, manchev) above the names probably relate to the position in the family…head, wife, son-in-law, etc.
You might achieve more certainty by studying more records until you learn more about the handwriting and abbreviations.
If I am correct about the Cyrillic "Ya" (backwards R), there will likely be other Cyrillic indicators in other words/places from time to time. If you can reliably infer what their local "k" and "h" and "z" looked like, that will help.
Here's a website that shows modern Russian Cyrillic cursive. Antique anything can differ from modern standards. The "Ya" I'm talking about is the last letter in the grid.https://golearnrussian.com/russian-cursive/
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Thank you. I'm pretty sure the surname is Luktro - I have seen that name in other documents.
Looking at the other households, nyi seems to correlate with the wife. I don't think I have seen bo" elsewhere.
Here's another example where an oszvegy is listed first: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK8-N3D7-P?cat=385993&i=343&lang=en
In this case, I see fija below, which directly translates to son.
So perhaps bo" means son-in-law? And manchev possibly means grandchildren?
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Also, any idea of the name on line 7?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK8-N3DW-M?cat=385993&i=349&lang=en0 -
Hi! Continuing the conversation…
It's so hard to know when Cyrillic writing comes on the scene, what letter is what. Because people can be idiosyncratic and also their school handwriting training can be idiosyncratic.
Modern Google says English son-in-law is vő in Hungarian. So if that's a Cyrillic letter then yes, that's a "v" that looks like a letter "b". I'd say that's solved.
I completely accept I could be wrong about the "Ya". It's so curious. But I'd like to see that L name in different handwritings from different papers. Luktro sounds a bit odd to me. Luktso would sound a bit more normal. But I'm not an expert. Just lived around a lot of descendants of Slovaks and studied beginner Russian.
I can't quickly explain the grandchildren-type word. Keep in mind it could be locally acceptable vocabulary and not formal educated standard vocabulary. Or maybe we are reading the letters wrong.
Regarding the new link, Line 7, I think that child is another Anna. I can't read the other word - utts or litts is the closest I can guess. I would try to figure out what the note is off to the side at the end of the row. Completely guessing - and I can get Google to translate sukel as to suck (although I didn't put an accent on the U) - perhaps this 4 year old is a foster? In the town I'm researching in Western Slovakia, they took in and raised abandoned babies/children for a stipend. Illegitimate/abandoned babies from the foundling house in Vienna. In the Census for the town I've studied, these are noted in Slovak as Viennese foundlings with their birthplace being Wien. These were typically Roman Catholic babies and were noted as such in the Census. I believe though, that this kid had the same birthplace as the kid above. So not likely an imported foster.
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ChatGPT, with some corrections from me, transcribed it as süket néma, which it said translated to "Deaf-mute"
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What kind of prompt and corrections do you use? Do you take a photo, as with Google Lens?
At this link, first line, there's a head of household that has a similar mark to Row 7 Anna's name. Looks like itt.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK8-N3D4-F?cat=385993&i=337&lang=en
I wonder who Anna was. Because there's an older Anna in the household. Could she be her daughter? Older Anna is 19. Younger Anna is 4. Birth trauma can cause deafness. Just a speculation.
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I used the snipping tool on MacOS to grab a screenshot of just the remark column and dragged it into ChatGPT.
My initial prompt was "Any idea what this says? It's a note on a hungarian census record. Possibly an adopted child?"
It said, "Saját néma" and provided the meaning for those words.
I gave it a follow up prompt that said "Suket looks more likely", and then it arrived at "süket néma".Yes, the "itt" mark is interesting. ChatGPT/google translate says "itt" means "here". But that term seems to be used very sparingly.
I missed the two Annas. You might be right that she could be another generation.
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About the original question:
III/1: this is the householder, who is a widow and owns the land
III/2: this is indeed "vő", i.e. son in law.
III/3: the word there is "neje", which means "his wife", referring to the person in III/2. This is the daughter of the widow.
III/4: the underlined word is "gyermekek", i.e. children, referring to György and Anna.
On the other link, the word is indeed süketnéma, i.e. deaf/mute.
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