Need Help Locating Slovenian or Slovakian Ancestors
Greetings,
I am attempting to locate two sets of great-great-great grandparents. One of the documents I read stated the language as Slovene, but I have seen another document that mentions Slovakia. The place of birth on immigration documents is listed as Austria, because they immigrated before the empire was broken up. One set is Thomas Czorn/Zorn/Czoren and Mary Skodran/Skodvaux. The other set is Michael Persch/Pierce/Perš and Martha Hudein. There were spelling variations in the documents that make it difficult. I would appreciate any assistance.
-Amanda
Comments
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Could you provide the approx date of birth, marriage dates etc, to see if we can narrow any of this down for you.
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Approximate birthdates would in the 1840s or 1850s. Their children (my great-great-great grandparents were born in the 1870s. The marriages probably took place in the early 1870s. Unfortunately, that is about all of the information I currently have.
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You need to give much more detail. A person's name and country of origin is not enough to go on. Especially if there are known spelling variations.
Can you describe, show, or link the immigration documents?
Do you know if these people became American citizens?
Do you know the years of emigration and have you found port records? Port records might have home country contact information.
Was the husband by any chance involved as a soldier in the Civil War? (Some Czechs in the Midwest were.)
Have you located them in the U.S. Census? At a bare minimum, I recommend you find each Census and look to see what ethnic communities are surrounding them. You may be able to figure out their ethnicity by their neighbors and community.
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Thank you for the advice. I really don't have much to go on. I only have their names on their children's marriage licenses, but have been unable to locate any other information about them, unfortunately. I will try to locate the census records, as you suggested.
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Hi Amanda-
Maybe start with describing the marriage licenses of the children. Where were the children married? Please list in order, each child, their spouse, date of marriage, church or city hall location of marriage, church denomination (if not clear in the church title), place of marriage. Or upload pictures.
Then, do you suspect the parents lived in the area of the marriage for a while? Urban immigrant Slavs tended to band together near their churches in immigrant areas. You may find Census neighborhoods of people with similar immigrant timings, often rooming with people of similar nationalities.
Big search engines can sometimes find people who are needles in a haystack just by name spelling, but your particular time frame is difficult. Your 1870s people were born Americans so they will not have naturalization paperwork and they were too old to be drafted for WW1. And they were also likely born too early to die with Social Security benefits (that leaves behind death paperwork that contains some origin information). Mine born in 1850s-1880s were immigrants, so I was able to trace them through various documents working backwards from Social Security, naturalization documents, WW1 draft cards, marriage licenses of their children. And they all lived in one town in New York State that they never moved away from once they arrived around 1904.
This particular FamilySearch Community Group is not very active. If you are able, I suggest you also try Reddit Genealogy (r/genealogy) or a specialized Facebook group. But first try to find or guess some US state location information to get people started helping you.
For example, if you know they were farming in Iowa, that's a different search strategy than looking for them in urban New York. Do you have any clues about their religion(s)?
Do you have an Ancestry subscription? Have you tried seeing if any of your distant cousins have created trees? Also, if you are willing to do your DNA, that could help you figure things out that you can't find without more paper information.
Regarding spelling, keep a list of every variant you find, including variants with accent marks. You might someday need the accent marks to search in the native language. I have seen things like Violet spelled Wylet on a birth record and Krc spelled Kis.
I do think the Census is most likely to work out if you can narrow down where they lived when.
Good luck, I'll check back.
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Thank you so much. I am very new to genealogy research and so am not familiar with all of the researching strategies. I will definitely utilize all the advice from this group and see if I can trace anything. I really appreciate everyone's great suggestions.
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I found success looking for my grandfather's birth by checking the Slovakian Catholic Church baptism records. I had an abstract already but by looking there i was able to find his siblings as well as the baptisms of his parents in the 1840-50s. For a long time I had failed to realize that many Hungarians were born in Austro-Hungarian Empire wick encompassed part of today's Slovakia.
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The marriage record described above is on Ancestry.com. But I can't find any hits for trees with the people in this record. The original poster is correct that there are spelling irregularities and that will impact determining who the right people are.
Name
Martin Persch (note: Groom's Record)
Gender
Male
Age
29
Birth Year
abt 1876
Marriage Date
8 May 1905
Marriage Place
Kane, Illinois, USA
Father
Mother
Spouse
Name
Mary Czonin (note: Bride's Record)
Gender
Female
Age
30
Birth Year
abt 1875
Marriage Date
8 May 1905
Marriage Place
Kane, Illinois, USA
Father
Mother
Spouse
This table below has similar data but is from a summary of a record dated 1 May 1905. It might be the marriage application (and they needed a week's wait to pick up the license).
Name
Martin Persch
Gender
Male
Age
28
Birth Year
abt 1877
Marriage Date
1 May 1905
Marriage Place
Kane, Illinois, USA
Spouse
Mary Zorn (note different spelling of bride's name)
Source Citation
Various Illinois County Courthouses; Various Illinois County Courthouses; Marriage Records; Collection Title: Marriage Records
Source Information
Ancestry.com. Illinois, U.S., County Marriage Records, 1800-1940 [database on-line]. Lehi, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2016.
Original data: Marriage Records. Illinois Marriages. Various Illinois County collections.
Note: it seems like there are only images available for Peoria, IL on Ancestry. It isn't possible (yet) to see the Kane images. It would be good to get copies of the originals to scan them for clues (check whether the name transcription was accurate, see if there are any unreported fields).
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Based on Ancestry.com, I would pursue these weak leads, without confidence that they are the right person.
Aurora IL City Directory information - does Thomas Zakousek (address from the 1946 phone book and 1940 Census) ring a bell? Cousin? Direct relative?
Name
Martin Persche
Gender
Female
Residence Year
1905
Street Address
368 n Broadway
Residence Place
Aurora, Illinois, USA
Occupation
Laborer
Spouse
Publication Title
Aurora, Illinois, City Directory, 1905
Name
Martin Pershe
Residence Year
1931
Street Address
524 S River
Residence Place
Aurora, Illinois, USA
Occupation
Laborer
Publication Title
Aurora, Illinois, City Directory, 1931
Detail Source
Name
Martin Pershe
Residence Year
1946
Street Address
Thos Zakousek
Residence Place
Aurora, Illinois, USA
Occupation
Laborer
Publication Title
Aurora, Illinois, City Directory, 1946
1910 Census
If this is the right family, they were possibly born in an area that had muddled Polish and German control. "Polish" is recorded as the birthplace for Martin, Mary, and all of their parents. Martin speaks English, Mary speaks Dutch (obvious mistake for Deutsch, meaning German). Sometimes the Census person interviewed someone with bad information, so take everything recorded as hypothetical until more concretely proven. This Martin immigrated in 1885. Mary in either 1905 or 1908, but I believe it is 1905 and that would be more consistent with the marriage date of couple above. Their kids were Jossie (possibly a Josef?) and Mike.
Name
Martin Presh[Martin Presle]
Age in 1910
33
Birth Date
1877[1877]
Birthplace
Germany
Home in 1910
Aurora Ward 7, Kane, Illinois, USA
Sheet Number
2a
Street
Plain Ave
House Number
679
Race
White
Gender
Male
Immigration Year
1885
Relation to Head of House
Head
Marital Status
Married
Father's Birthplace
Germany
Mother's Birthplace
Germany
Native Tongue
English
Occupation
Laborer
Industry
Gass Co
Employer, Employee or Other
Wage Earner
Home Owned or Rented
Own
Home Free or Mortgaged
Mortgaged
Farm or House
House
Naturalization Status
Naturalized
Able to read
Y
Able to Write
Y
Enumeration District Number
0041
Years Married
5
Out of Work
N
Number of Weeks Out of Work
0
Enumerated Year
1910
Neighbors
View others on page
Household Members (Name)
Age
Relationship
Martin Presh
33
Head
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Here's some info on Thomas Zakousek. Perhaps he was a relative of Martin Persch. Or just a boarding house owner.
Name
Thomas Zakosek
Gender
Male
Birth Date
1875
Birth Place
Austria
Death Date
12 Nov 1957
Death Place
Kane County, Illinois, United States of America
Cemetery
Saint Joseph Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place
Aurora, Kane County, Illinois, United States of America
Has Bio?
Y
Spouse
Children
John Thomas ZakosekFrank ZakosekNicholas Michael ZakosekThomas ZakosekJacob Zakosek
URL
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I'm looking at a bunch of stuff for Thomas Zakosek on Ancestry. One picture (which doesn't paste in here) has information indicating that Frances Zakosek's middle name was "Korn". That may be a mistake for Zorn or Czoren.
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Here is the Zakosek household in the 1940 Census. Frances is listed as born in Yugoslavia (that would be more of a Slovenian likelihood). She might possibly be Martin Persch's sister-in-law. That is a hypothesis.
Detail Source
Name
Frances Zekosek[Frances Zakosek]
Respondent
Yes
Age
63
Estimated Birth Year
abt 1877
Gender
Female
Race
White
Birthplace
Yugoslavia
Marital Status
Married
Relation to Head of House
Wife
Home in 1940
Aurora, Kane, Illinois
Map of Home in 1940
Aurora, Kane, Illinois
Street
Aurora Avenue
House Number
Box 548
Farm
No
Inferred Residence in 1935
Aurora, Kane, Illinois
Residence in 1935
Aurora
Resident on farm in 1935
No
Citizenship
Alien
Sheet Number
9B
Father's Birthplace
Yugoslavia
Mother's Birthplace
Yugoslavia
Woman Marriages
No
Woman Age at First Marriage
26
Number of Children
6
Attended School or College
No
Highest Grade Completed
Elementary school, 6th grade
Income Other Sources
Yes
Native Language
Slovak
Veteran
No
Social Security Number
No
Usual Occupation
Housewife
Usual Class of Worker
Unpaid family worker
Neighbors
View others on page
Household Members (Name)
Age
Relationship
Frances Zekosek
63
Wife
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Here is the 1910 Census for the Zakosek household. There is a Thomas Zorn "boarder". Probably a relative of Frances. The Zakosek household older members have a birthplace of Austria-Slovenian and speak Slovenian. Frances immigrated in 1907. May have been a sister of Mary.
Detail Source
Name
Frances Zakosek
Age in 1910
33
Birth Date
1877[1877]
Birthplace
Austria
Home in 1910
Aurora Ward 7, Kane, Illinois, USA
Sheet Number
5b
Street
Aurora Avenue
Race
White
Gender
Female
Immigration Year
1907
Relation to Head of House
Wife
Marital Status
Married
Father's Birthplace
Austria
Mother's Birthplace
Austria
Native Tongue
Slavonian
Able to read
Y
Able to Write
Y
Enumeration District Number
0042
Years Married
10
Number of Children Born
5
Number of Children Living
4
Enumerated Year
1910
Neighbors
View others on page
Household Members (Name)
Age
Relationship
Frances Zakosek
33
Wife
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Worth noting - the two older Zakosek children were not born in the US.
This is the Ancestry.com link for the 1910 Census.
https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/7884/records/130468918?tid=&pid=&queryId=dd40f992-26bb-4c94-a9d4-2c5897924132&_phsrc=fHO163&_phstart=successSource
1910 United States Federal Census for Frances ZakosekIllinois / Kane / Aurora Ward 7 / District 0042
If pursued further, it's possible that ship emigration records might reveal the place of origin of Thomas and Frances Zakosek.
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In the 1950 Census, Thomas, Frances, and one son are living together. No Martin. That could place Martin's death date between 1940-1950. They are living on Aurora Avenue. Same house as in 1940.
Detail Source
Name
Thomas Zakasek
Age
75
Birth Date
abt 1875
Gender
Male
Race
White
Birth Place
Yugoslavia
Marital Status
Married
Relation to Head of House
Head
Residence Date
1950
Home in 1950
Aurora, Kane, Illinois, USA
Street Name
Aurora Avenue
House Number
435
Apartment Number
Son
Dwelling Number
121
Farm
No
Acres
No
Citizenship
No
Occupation Category
Unable to Work
Household Members (Name)
Age
Relationship
Thomas Zakasek
75
Head
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I've found more on the Corn/Zorn family on Ancestry.
Franciska Corn1877–1956
Birth 22 MAR 1877 • n. 53, Vrhnika, Slovenia (Oberlaibach)
Death 28 JULY 1956 • Aurora, Kane, Illinois, USA
This is probably Frances Zakosek. And her big sister Mary is Marija Corn born 1872. And brother Thomas Zorn born 1884.
Father is Thomas Zorn.
Birth: 18 November 1842 • n. 64, Stara Vrhnika, Slovenia (was Altoberlaibach)
Mother was Marija Skodlar
Birth: 5 November 1852 • n. 52, Vrhnika, Slovenia (Oberlaibach)
Ancestry user (username removed) has a large tree which goes back much further in Slovenia. He probably vacuumed up this information from another person's tree. So may not be the original researcher. But it is very promising.
I think the key to understanding the misspellings of this name is that Corn is meant to start with a soft "C" that sounds like an S. Modern readers reinterpreted it as Korn. But it would sound like Csorin or Csorn or Zorn.
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@Romi Krc Mod note: Community is a public online forum. Your post was edited to protect the privacy of a living person. Please see the Community Code of Conduct for more details.
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Thank you so much to everyone for all of your help!
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Hi Amanda96713 -
I'm so pleased you came back! I was surprised by how fast I was able to follow the threads for one of your surnames once I had time to begin.
Would you like help following the paternal line (Martin Pers)? And have you found any more clues about your family? You can always send me a private message through the FamilySearch e-mail. I go through periods when I don't regularly check because I've only sent a handful of e-mails in the time I've been on this site. But I will eventually see them. I am quite active right now with my genealogy hobby. I also have a paid basic subscription to Ancestry (but not the European add-on because most of that info is available free on FamilySearch).
I am going to send you a private message with the information you will need to find the tree on Ancestry.com.
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