Is there a KA for 'Delete Relationship' option
Comments
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I'm obviously late to this party, but I am looking for a KA that explains the feature Delete Relationship found in the lower left hand corner of the couple box. It is described in the following KA but is only visible in the help section of church member accounts, because it discusses Temple Ordinances.
I am part of several Facebook groups where FS is discussed and I prefer to include a link to KAs when I respond to questions. I cannot find a KA that describes the Delete Relationship that every patron can view. This features enables the couple to be viewed in the couple box together, as well as the views of the child's family tree. Placing the unmarried parents in sepearate boxes will not allow a child of these parents to be viewed at the same time when viewing his tree.
I've heard too many creative solutions on how to notate this type of parental relationship, most of which are not historically accurate, and actually create ordinances that should not be completed. Ain't nobody got time for that!
Most people are unaware that Delete Relationship exists and really don't understand its purpose or what happens when it is clicked, becasue it's essentailly hidden. Patrons would be better served if there was an option in the drop menu of events that effectively describes this type of birth circumstance; is easily identifiable and understandable to all patrons using the program; and locks out the sealing ordinances according to Temple policies within the sytem. It would function just as Delete Relationship does, now, but it really needs more visibilty and be easily understood by all patrons.
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I see my link didn't post. I'll try again.
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Christina
It's 'Brett'.
You mean this:
[ 1 ] Step 1 ...
And ...
[ 2 ] Step 2 ...
IF, so; THEN, ...
It, is 'seen'; &, can be accessed/actioned, by ALL Users/Patrons, NOT, just those, who are Members of the Church.
It is NOT, specific, to "Temple" Work.
But. 'Yes', in taking that action, such will prevent, a Child; being, "Sealed", to THOSE particular Parents.
As, when actioned, the Child, then appears, twice, in two separate Families; being, separately, with each Parent; but, WITHOUT the other Parent.
I hope, that this may help/assist, somewhat.
Brett
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Hi.
The problem is already taken care of, but not exactly the way you suggest.
In the flyout window you can add relationship facts. See bottom of this image.
Kindly Anne-Kathrine Henriksen
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Brett and Anne-Kathrine
The feature Delete Relationship is visible to all patrons, however the KA explanation of its usage is not, due to the ordinance information included in it. I was looking for a correlating KA that explains Delete Relationship to all patrons so I can post the link in FB conversations where patrons are discussing how to notate the child producing but non-sustained relationship. People are getting creative in how to accomplish what they want to see in regard to this kind of relationship to the point that they are creating fictional relationships. And that's not genealogy.
The Delete Relationshp does not place the two parents in seperate boxes without a spouse, which would modify the tree views to only show one branch and not both parent's. It's a great feature, as it lets the system know to lock out the sealing ordinances that should not be performed. No other feature has that ability has the ability to do that.
As for Anne-Kathrine's suggestion, the Relationship Facts doesn't have the stand alone capaibility to lock out ordinances that should not be performed and using the Delete Relationship feature may cause the Relationshps Facts to not be available. I would need to try it to see for sure.
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Christina
It's 'Brett', again.
Just in passing ...
'Yes', you are correct.
That "Knowledge Article", relates to "Temple" Work.
And, as such, is ONLY accessible, to Users/Patrons, who are Members of the Church.
And, just to get the terminology right ...
The action, to "Delete" the Relationship; DOES NOT, place the Parents, in "... separate boxes ...", it makes (or, turns) them into SEPARATE "Families"; and, as such, with the SAME Child, in EACH, of those SEPARATE "Families", with each Parent individually (ie. separately ).
Now ...
That Said ...
For Users/Patrons, who are NOT members of the Church ...
There is this particular "Knowledge Article", in 'FamilySearch':
A person in Family Tree has the wrong spouse
https://www.familysearch.org/en/help/helpcenter/article/a-person-in-family-tree-has-the-wrong-spouse
Plus ...
How do I add or change marriage information in Family Tree?
And ...
How do I indicate that a person in Family Tree had no children or was never in a relationship?
Whereas ...
In fact ...
Users/Patrons, are NOT, getting "Creative", in how to accomplish, what they want to 'see', in regard to a Couple, who are NOT "Married"; where, a Child exists; as, there is, certainly, MORE, than ONE way, to accomplish, that type of "Family" Dynamic (for want of a better term - ie. Mother; Father; and, "Biological" Child).
eg.
(1) "Family" Dynamic: Couple, together; as, "No Marriage Events"; &, with Child associated, to Mother & Father.
or,
(2) Two (x2) SEPARATE Families, with SAME Child, appearing in BOTH ...
(a) "Family" Dynamic: Male/Father, "Single", with NO Spouse/Partner, with Child associated, to Father
(b) "Family" Dynamic: Female/Mother, "Single", with NO Spouse/Partner, with Child associated, to Mother
(3) However else, they want to record/accomplish such ...
As, to Users/Patrons, creating "Fictional" relationships, that all depends, on how EACH particular situation/circumstance, is "Setup"; especially, if they DO NOT, leave the OTHER Spouse/Partner position; as, "Blank"/"Empty"/'Nothing".
Users/Patrons, can do what they like ...
There is NO ... 'Right'; or, 'Wrong' ...
But ...
That Said ...
They have to REMEMBER, that ANOTHER User/Patron, can come along; and, CHANGE, what they "Setup".
There is NO "Monopoly" ...
They DO NOT have a "Monopoly" ...
Good Luck.
Just my thoughts.
I know, that this certainly may not help/assist; but, I hope, that this may provide you with, some additional, insight; and, perspective.
Brett
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Brett, I am privy to conversations with the users and they ARE getting creative, by their own statements of admission.
I am aware of the other options and none of them are optimal, as they do not have the capability to lock out sealing ordinances that should not be performed. The creative solutions people have said they are using, such as Lived Together, would actually encourage sealings to be completed when the couple never actually maintained a sustained, cohabitating relationship. Obviously, as nonmembers they have no knowledge of the whys and wherefores of temple policies, so they are not to blame. But they are also rewriting history in an attempt to notate the out of wedlock child in the absence of the option to mark as Not Married. And unfortunately Delete Relationship (which locks out ordinances) does not effectively explain it's purpose and use anywhere accessible for every patron.
Placing parents in separate couples boxes is confusing and disallows seeing both lines simultaneously in Tree Views for the child and his progenitors.
Having a better description of how/when to use Delete Relationship would enable ALL patrons of FS to help accurately explain the circumstances of a child's birth, much like the Stillborn option does, while locking out ordinances which are not appropriate to be completed. This is the best solution, but needs another KA that is available for every patron to access.
I was told to make my suggestion in the Community page by someone who works for FS and I found this conversation thread, prior to posting a new thread. I am hoping the powers that be are reading and that I am not just stirring up the patron dust that settled a few years ago.
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Christina
It's 'Brett', again.
Just in passing ...
[ And, I understand; plus, not to labour ... ]
You DO NOT, have to tell me, what OTHERS do ...
I have been dealing, with such, for Over x40 Years ...
Regardless, Users/Patrons DO, what, they WANT ...
And, "Lived Together", is a VERY "Valid" relationship type.
Plus, in SOME cases, there is an "Option", to indicate, that an individual/person, DID NOT have a Relationship.
ie.
Other Information Section
▬ Facts
▬ ▬ NO Couple Relationship
Which could be used; where, a Mother; and, Father, appear as SEPARATE "Families"; and, with the SAME Child, in EACH, of those SEPARATE "Families", with each Parent individually (ie. separately ).
The problem/issue, being, that such, CANNOT, be used, if an individual/person, DOES have, OTHER Relationships.
Plus ...
Like it or not ...
We DO NOT, get the OPTION, to CHOOSE, if "Temple" Work SHOULD (or, should NOT) be undertaken/done ...
There is NO LONGER, a simple option, to request, "DO NOT SEAL" (DNS), like there used to be.
Here is a "Knowledge Article", in 'FamilySearch':
Requesting that ordinances not be performed
https://www.familysearch.org/en/help/helpcenter/article/requesting-that-ordinances-not-be-performed
Nowadays ...
"Requests", that "Temple" Work, NOT, be undertaken/performed, MUST be submitted, DIRECTLY to the "First Presidency", for approval/authorisation.
But ...
That Said ...
I certainly DO NOT advocate, "Deleting" a FAMILY Relationship, for a Couple, who were NOT "Married"; where, a Child exists, just to 'lock out', the "Temple" Work.
But, like it or not, regardless of "Temple" Work, such, is acceptable, if a particular User/Patron, prefers to 'see' a "Family" Dynamic (for want of a better term), appear as such.
The ONLY Problem/Issue is, that ANOTHER User/Patron, can come along; and, CHANGE, the "Setup".
Which CAN create "Edit Wars" ...
Explanations, of WHY, a "Family" Dynamic (for want of a better term), has been "Setup", by a particular User/Patron, in a particular way, will NOT help/assist.
And, Users/Patrons, who are not members of the Church, care not about "Temple" Work.
Plus, MANY Users/Patrons, just like to 'see' things, a CERTAIN way ...
[ And, they will NOT be, "Dissuaded", from such ... ]
I am sorry ...
I am just trying to be, realistic ...
There CAN be; as, MANY "Knowledge Articles", in 'FamilySearch'; as, one likes ...
But, regardless, that will make NO real difference ...
Users/Patrons, WILL simply DO, what, they WANT ...
Again ...
I know, that this certainly may not help/assist; but, I hope, that this may provide you with, some additional, insight; and, perspective.
Brett
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You are looking beyond the mark, Brett.
It is not my opinion, but rather is explained in the following links and this option should be made more visible to patrons who cannot access these links, as they are getting creative in trying to explain relationships that do constitute a family and therefore creating family relationships that are not historically correct.
I am simply asking for a KA that is available for non members that explains the "No Marriage Event" as described in the following links, so they can be historically accurate in building the tree and at the same time, refrain from creating relationships that are "inappropriate to create for eternity when none existed in mortality".
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