Researching England before 1837
I have hit a brick wall. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Researching:
Parents of Thewlis Daye Abt1834–1919 BIRTH Abt.1834 • England DEATH 25 12 1919 • Marcellus, Onondaga, New York
I know that both Thewlis's parents are English from census records but have no other info in England. Thewlis immigrated to Scotland and married Euphemia Nelson 30 Oct 1863 in Denny, Stirlingshire, Scotland.
. Three of his children, John Alfred Bryden Daye Sr, Elenora Kennedy Daye, Amelia Mary Daye were born in Scotland. I believe he immigrated to Canada about 1871. The last two, Minnie Nelson Daye and Isabella Ferguson Daye were born in Ontario, Canada.
He is listed as Presbyterian in Scotland and Free Church while in Canada. Occupations include Designer and wool carder.
I realize that he was born before the England Civic Registration of 1837 . But without a town or county, I am lost
Thank you for any help your might give
Margie
Answers
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Hi @Margaret8112 I would recommend that you join and post in the British Isles Research group and perhaps the Canada Research group.
Best of luck!
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I didn't know they existed. Thank you!
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Find My Past has an indexed record for Thewlis Daye (born about 1836), at Hawick in the 1871 Scotland census. The ScotlandsPeople website has this indexed under "T Daye". Unfortunately, further details (including possibly date of birth - though this might just show "England") are behind a paywall. There appear to be other records for him on the websites, too, including the 1863 marriage record you mention.
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You folks are amazing.
Thank you for giving me other search options
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Sorry about my error in typing "date" instead of "place" in my previous comments. Re-reading your comments, too, I assume you have probably already checked out the census records. I mainly work on census records for England, where the place of birth for someone born in Scotland is generally recorded as just that - i.e., no parish / town name. If the situation is the same for Scotland (and just an "England" place of birth recorded), I can see why you would still be none the wiser on a specific place of birth!
I had a brief look at other websites - including looking for a connection between "Thewlis" and "Daye" - but both Find My Past and Ancestry only have the 1823 marriage at Almondbury, Yorkshire between Amelia Daye and John Thewlis: so no male DAYE to a woman with maiden name THEWLIS that might have provided a clue, in lieu of a baptism being found for Thewlis himself. Assuming the family were non-conformists, I find it quite common, in such cases, for there to be no baptism record to be found.
I wish you well in your quest, but still have elusive birth / baptism records for a few of my ancestors after over thirty years of searching, but I still live in hope that "one day..."!
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Very interesting that scottish census might record birth place as England without details
Good luck on your quest as well
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@Margaret8112 The same happens in the US census in that it is rare to get more than just England as the place of birth. When I find a US census documenting the Irish county, I'm ecstatic.
That said, one family I researched migrated from Ireland to England and was documented consistently in the English census with the Irish county and even with the parish in that county. That was collateral research at its best because it was a brick wall breaker for me, giving me the Irish parish and county for my 2nd great-grandparents.
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@Margaret8112 said:
" ... Very interesting that scottish census might record birth place as England without details ... "
If I had to explain what was going on, then I'd start with the fact that the Scottish census was organised by the General Register Office of Scotland; the the Irish census was organised by the General Register Office of Ireland and the English & Welsh census was organised by the General Register Office of England & Wales.
Each of those 3 GROs was, I believe but don't know for certain, charged with understanding migration patterns within their own area - but only that area. So the GRO (Scotland) wanted to compare current residences within Scotland with birthplaces in Scotland. If the person resident in Scotland was a Sassenach born in Manchester, say, the GRO (Scotland) really didn't care about that level of detail - born in England would suffice, thank you very much.
So each of the 3 GROs of the UK wanted exact birthplaces only if they were in their own area - if the person came from outside, then the name of the country was all they wanted.
As a result, my two 3G GPs from Ireland went through their life in England just recording (or having recorded) "Ireland" against their birthplace. 😥
Having said that, there are lots of exceptions. My Irish 3G GPs can be compared to my friend's 2G GF who appears in the 1911 English census with not just "Ireland", not just "Co. Tipperary", not even just the parish but the actual estate where he was born!
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There is one ED in New Jersey, I think in 1860, the enumerator listed the Irish county of birth for nearly every inhabitant. The few non-Irish were from what is now Germany, and he listed the specific German city-state for those. He went above and beyond.
And then there is the enumerator whose job was to count the residents of a prison, and he added the crime for which each was incarcerated.
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