Gedcoms
Please PLEASE stop allowing the upload of gedcoms. With so many new or inexperienced people building a tree on FS the potential for duplication of profiles is immense. It is causing a lot of people such frustration that they simply give up having a tree on FS which is such a pity.
Comments
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Jane
Welcome to the "Community.FamilySearch" Forum.
I am just another 'lowly' User/Patron ...
Just in passing ...
You are not alone ...
Many of us, have been Asking/Requesting/Pleading/Campaigning (and, in some cases, "Demanding") such ...
[ In, this; and, the many various 'iterations', of the 'FamilySearch' "Feedback' Forums ... ]
For, MANY; Many; many, YEARS ...
But ...
That Said ...
To NO avail ...
Like, yourself; and, MANY ...
I really wish, 'FamilySearch' would just STOP allowing, the "Upload", of GEDCOM Files, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch' altogether.
There is just NO need, to "Upload", a GEDCOM File, into the "Family Tree", of 'FamilySearch', under ANY circumstance; even, if one's "Ancestral" Lines, are NOT already, in the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch'.
As I always 'say', to Users/Patrons, who mention, the "Upload", of GEDCOM File, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch' ...
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You can; but ...
Please, DO NOT, "Upload", a GEDCOM File, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch'.
Upload, the GEDCOM Files, in the "Genealogies" Part, of 'FamilySearch', that is fine; but, please NOT, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch'.
Some of the reasons, that Users/Patrons (like myself), DO NOT, want the ability, to upload, a GEDCOM File, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch' are:
(1) It is most likely, that individuals/persons in a GEDCOM File, are ALREADY, in the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch'; and, most Users/Patrons, DO NOT; even, take the time to 'look', to 'see', if anyone in their GEDCOM File, is already in "Family Tree", in some instances, negating the need to even upload the GEDCOM File.
(2) There has been (many) cases; where, Users/Patrons, using the "Compare" process (of the upload), have "Dismissed", a "Possible" Match, with an individual/person already, in "Family Tree"; so that, THEIR "Record", from their GEDCOM File, is loaded into "Family Tree", regardless; just so that, their "Record" appears in "Family Tree" (and, in some instances, for Members of the Church, so they can do the "Temple" Work, despite the fact, that the "Temple" Work, is ALREADY done, with the "Possible" Match, with the individual/person already, in "Family Tree").
(3) Even with the "Compare" process (of the upload), there has been (many) cases; where, Users/Patrons, have uploaded, THEIR version of an individual/person, in their GEDCOM File, on top of (ie. Over) an individual/person ALREADY, in the "Family Tree" Part, of "FamilySearch", that has been there for MANY years and is well documented and "Sources" - in many instances obliterating all of the documentation and "Sources".
(4) If an individual/person, is ALREADY, in the "Family Tree" Part, of "FamilySearch", there is NO need, to uploaded one's version of an individual/person, from one's own GEDCOM File - just take note of the the 'FamilySearch Person Identifier' (PID) of the individual/person, that is ALREADY, in "Family Tree"; and, one can go back later, to ensure what information/detail, is recorded and attached, for that individual/person. Just, DO NOT, uploaded one's version of an individual/person, in one's GEDCOM File, on top of (ie. Over) an individual/person ALREADY, in "Family Tree" - obliterating, all of the documentation and "Sources", ALREADY in place/on record.
(5) The "Hours" (sometimes "Days"; or, even, "Weekes") of work, by other Users/Patrons, that can be needed to CORRECT the DAMAGE, done by the "Upload", of a GEDCOM File, can be disheartening.
I am sorry ... 'off my soap box' ...
Enter (ie. 'Create') the individuals/persons, in the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch', one at a time - on a one by one basis.
Many of the individuals/persons in a GEDCOM File, most probably, ALREADY exist in, the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch'.
Only one or two generations of the "Living" individuals/persons; and, perhaps, maybe, only one or two generations of the "Deceased" individuals/persons, may be required to be entered/input, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch"; BEFORE, some of the "Deceased" individuals/persons, from one's Ancestral Lines, ALREADY existing, in the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch', are discovered.
Use the "Find" facility/function/feature to Search, the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch', one may be surprised to find some (if not, many) of them already there.
Many well established and documented (eg. "Sourced") individuals/person, in the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch', have been RUINED, by the "Upload", of a GEDCOM File, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch'.
I hope, that this puts things into perspective.
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Just my thoughts.
I know, that this certainly does not help/assist; but, I just wanted to let you know, that you are not alone.
Brett
ps: Here is a RECENT post, just an 1 Hour and 23 Minutes; BEFORE, yours ...
STOP 🛑 allowing Gedcoms to be uploaded to the main tree
pps: I have "Upvoted", your "Suggested Idea", too ...
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A FamilySearch has REFUSED for years to correct this GEDCOM upload problem. I might suggest contacting FS Support to ask them to reverse a particular recent GEDCOM upload.
In the meantime, I found another 'GEDCOMMESS' this morning, so I FSmailed to fellow 'followers' (for their information), and the GED uploader. I then posted to collaboration/discussion on two of the PID's involved. I also requested the person who uploaded to contact FamilySearch Support to request a reversal of the FSTree GED import.
FWIW: FS mail and discussion:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LH26-TVF (& G6X3-RPY)
A GEDCOM was uploaded on 18 Mar 2022 into the Pedigree Resource File:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:QYDF-DQ6 (Person Count: 4,015)
and then 'synced' into the FS Family Tree which likely changed a large amount of information with the collaborative tree. This will create the need for a potentially large amount of correction.
I am humbly asking the person who uploaded this into FSTree if they would please CONTACT FS Tech Support to ask them to REVERSE that GEDCOM entry & simply leave the information in the Pedigree Resource File where others may use it.
This has been a recurring problem for years. For example, among MANY comments, SEE:
https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/62482/gedcom-challenge-show-us-the-data/p1
(Not to be negative, BUT I sincerely doubt that these communications, requests & postings will NOT RESOLVE the GEDCOM Problem;
ONLY FamilySearch can SOLVE this PROBLEM; (SHOUTING intended)
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It's 'Brett'
Regarding ...
(Not to be negative, BUT I sincerely doubt that these communications, requests & postings will NOT RESOLVE the GEDCOM Problem;
I totally agree ...
Now, the 'Post' of:
Suggest An idea
HOME > SUGGEST AN IDEA
STOP 🛑 allowing Gedcoms to be uploaded to the main tree
has been "SHUT DOWN" ...
And, some 'Comments', in that 'Post', have been "Deleted".
CENSORSHIP is rife ...
I really have to wonder, if 'FamilySearch', is even seriously concerned, with the problem/issue, that many of us face, regarding the, "Damage" and "Destruction", caused by the continued allowance, of the "Upload", of GEDCOM Files, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch'.
As, NO matter how robust, the "Compare" feature/facility/function is made, in the "Upload" Process, of GEDCOM Files, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch', there WILL be, those Users/Patrons, that WILL upload, THEIR version of an individual/person, in their GEDCOM File, on top of (ie. Over) an individual/person ALREADY, in the "Family Tree" Part, of "FamilySearch", that has been there for MANY years and well documented and "Sourced", in many instances obliterating all of the documentation and "Sources", just so that, THEIR "Record", from their GEDCOM File, is loaded into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch, regardless.
Brett
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I favor uploading GEDCOM files to the Genealogies section only.
I know there is a compare process but I wonder how someone using the compare feature for a hypothetical person, for example,
Robert Smith b.1870; Pennsylvania can determine if:
Robert E. Smith b. Dec 17, 1869; Pennsylvania
Robert Edward Smith b. Dec, 1869, d. Feb 1925 Maryland; and
R. Edward Smith b. 1869 Pennsylvania d. 1925
is a match with one of these, or are they in fact four different people.
I could try to make this determination with considerable time and effort, and relying on places, family members and other sources. But could I do this quickly comparing two names using the batch compare process? I do not know. I would not want to make a wrong decision by pressing a button and overwriting an existing file. And if the GEDCOM files in the batch do not contain adequate source information, it would seem impossible to make a good decision. The quick and easy answer is to say they are different people.
Speed and ease of use is a good consideration in determining what functions should be automated.
But, we have a situation with a process where one person's timesaver is another person's timewaster, as they attempt to fix the duplicates or re-attach sources in the tree. And perhaps the person attempting to fix the tree is a more experienced genealogist, who would much rather be doing actual research, and whose contributions would have more overall value.
Now these folks don't HAVE to fix the tree, but as the saying goes "Garbage In, Garbage Out" and the tree will become less and less useful over time if these records are not corrected.
I realize that duplicates can be manually added to the tree as well, often because of name variations. But it is a slower and more deliberate process, and that I can live with.
I am not suggesting FamilySearch abandon the GEDCOM standard. I am only suggesting that the batch process into the main tree be restricted.
It may also be wise to restrict the access of programs such as My Heritage, RootsMagic, etc., so that records accessed through those programs can be read-only or downloaded, but NOT changed or uploaded.
In my ideal world, FamilySearch would be the place to do all your research, collaborate with others, and develop and document your family tree. The other sites/programs would be the place to transfer and preserve the "fruits of your labor". Not the other way around.
Thank you for your consideration.
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If I could, I'd give PattiG's post three thumbs up, especially the bit about her ideal world.
Determining whether two profiles match is impossible without looking at the whole picture, including all of the person's relatives, and the sources for the conclusions.
The GEDCOM upload strips the sources and notes, so that point of comparison has been lost right off the bat. This leaves us comparing relatives -- if we can. Here's what I see when I scroll down below the (mostly empty) vitals section on a "possible match" from my file:
(Ignoring the error in the labels: that second "Spouses and Children" on the left is clearly supposed to be "Parents and Siblings".)
This is clearly not a decision that can be made based on the information presented or with the tools provided. Adding the person from my file would serve zero useful purpose in cleaning up the Tree or researching the family.
I just did a bit of further testing, and yup, it happily added a nearly-identical duplicate of my grandfather's brother with a single click. (The only difference was in the labeling of his death location: my file had the Hungarian name, while Family Tree has the Slovak.) It appears that it only does the comparison once, when the file is first uploaded, and then behaves as if that were still the current state of the tree, regardless of how much later the file is looked at again. (My upload was in 2018.) This means that my file could be the source of up to 207 duplicates -- and I can find no way to get it to look again, short of uploading a fresh copy. And even knowing full well that mom's uncle does have a profile already, I could not get the compare-and-add process to show me the relevant part of the Tree. If it had been a more obscure relative, I would have had no way to figure it out.
As demonstrated, the compare-and-add process is badly flawed and should not be allowed anywhere near the Tree. Please stop the process at the upload to Genealogies. Anything further implies confidence in procedures that clearly do not work as intended.
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It was good to see that one of these (closed) topics has now been listed as "UNDER CONSIDERATION" - however . .....
I was also going to reference the 'longest discussions' on GetSat titled 'Would someone in upper FS management please explain why it is desirable or necessary to import Gedcom into FSTree' (or similar wording) but is also 'deleted, discarded & not to be found'. That was maybe 7 to 10 years ago and had tons of comments and an "explanation" Ron Tanner, Mr FSTree that it was so folks "wouldn't have to type!" I did find a reference to it with a 'bit' link (not working) in one of 'Rotkapchen's' posting a of 100's of examples of the problem.
I'll not be surprised if Brett has a copy in his extensive FS Help files.
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The GEDCOM upload Compare tool looks like a very outdated version of the current Merge. Arguably, creation of thousands of duplicates would be better than merging through this Compare tool. But even better than creating duplicates, if the tool would say Pause and use Find to check the tree for similar profiles.
The Compare tool at this point isn't even adequate to compare and reject a profile as a duplicate. So, in effect, pasting a GEDCOM into the public tree space is a largely capricious exercise. Rather few people who use it realize the scope of what they are doing, and I know a lot of users are painfully embarrassed. What I think would help is if the tool page would include text recommending that the user watch Family Tree to see what is happening.
How about imports to Family Tree by appointment only? So a volunteer experienced in merging could guide and help the contributor? I would much rather address the problem before the fact than have to fix the results later. And by watching lots of these trees coming into Family Tree we may see patterns and opportunities for leverage.
A brief tangent to make a point:
When I first came on Family Tree that Merge tool was pretty bad too. Apparently I was an early adopter merging on the mobile app. I used to have regular, lengthy communication with the engineers reporting bugs and suggesting features. In every reply to me they would paste a boilerplate paragraph about how the mobile app should not to used to edit the tree, only browse. (Really? Nah.) But for many editing tasks I prefer the mobile app. Currently it seems to have a much lower threshold for finding duplicates and is reliable enough that I use it heavily for resolving them. The duplicates are rather more hidden, though; they are not displayed together with the source hints.
My point: Tools get better when we stress test them and if lines of communication remain open. So, please, moderators do not delete or lock this discussion and commenters stay calm, respectful, non-accusatory, and argue on.
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It's 'Brett'
Ah ...
The good old ... 'FamilySearch' "GetSatisfaction" 'Feedback' Forum ... days ...
[ ie. BEFORE the HEAVY "Censorship" started there ... ]
I do have "Screenshots" of some of the OLD posts ...
But, unfortunately, no all ...
And, certainly not many of those 'lively' GEDCOM ones, they were just way TOO long.
And ...
As to ... "Under Construction" ...
The last sentence, in that NOW "Closed" 'Post', of "STOP 🛑 allowing Gedcoms to be uploaded to the main tree", states: This discussion will be sent on for consideration
That DOES NOT indicate, that such is "Under Construction", it SIMPLY mean "Sent for Consideration".
And, taking the leaf, from another Participant, on the use of a particular 'word' ...
I would humbly suggest, that is just another ... "Euphemism" ...
'FamilySearch', HAS had COUNTLESS requests/pleading/begging/(and, even) "Demands", over these, MANY; Many, many, Years, to STOP, the "Upload", of GEDCOM Files, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch'.
"Consideration", for such, is NOT required.
"Action", for such, is required.
'Fiddling around the edges', with 'beefing-up' the "Compare" feature/facility/function, of the "Process", has; and, will NOT, make any difference - NO matter how robust, the "Compare" feature/facility/function is made.
Users/Patrons, WILL still do, what they WANT to do, regardless ...
As, a "Programmer", once said to me ...
[ And, NOT, from 'FamilySearch' ... ]
You CANNOT make a "System" FOOLPROOF; because, FOOLS are so INGENEOUS ...
That is so true ...
The, BEST; and, ONLY, action, that is required, by 'FamilySearch', is to STOP, the ability, to be able to "Upload", GEDCOM Files, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch',
Nothing more, nothing less ...
GEDCOM Files, ONLY belong, in the "Genealogies" Part, of 'FamilySearch'.
GEDCOM Files, DO NOT belong, in the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch'.
It is that simple.
Just my thoughts.
Brett
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Continuing to allow gedcom uploads into the FamilySearch Tree is a HUGE PROBLEM!!! I understand the reasoning for continuing to allow gedcom uploads, BUT to allow this in its current format is disrespectful of those who have spent years years searching for, verifying, and adding information into the tree. I find it hard to believe that in today's technological world there is still no way to solve the duplicate problem that many users have complained about for years.
Two recent gedcom uploads have added hundreds if not thousands of duplicates into my tree. It will take me months of solid work to merge these duplicates. This is especially frustrating because the vast majority of these duplicates are exact copies of what is already in the tree. How was this not caught and dealt with at the time of upload? It is also frustrating because what has been uploaded appears to have originally come from the Family Search tree - which means that information (that came from the FS Tree) is now being added back into the FS Tree as duplicates.
Why should I spend my time merging these duplicates instead of searching for and adding new persons and new information into the tree? - or processing the thousands of welcome new hints now available in the tree? Why is the gedcom uploader not required to review and merge the duplicates during the upload process? Why is there no diaglog between FS engineers/programmers and FS users about how to solve this problem? (Surely we are all on the same page with love for FamilySearch.) Why is there radio silence??
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I feel your pain. What may help is to post a table of these duplicates, as shown by pairs of PIDs: your profile and the new GEDCOM profile, so engineers can see exactly how the compare step is not working. So, don't merge, just document.
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That’s a good idea, but only if FS engineers actually read these posts. Do they? And if so then how do we know they read them? Where is their feedback?
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That’s a good idea, but only if FS engineers actually read these posts. Do they? And if so then how do we know they read them? Where is their feedback?
FamilySearch engineers do read some discussions. One function of moderators here is to escalate selected discussions to the engineering teams. To achieve escalation, as a rule it is necessary to provide screen shots and/or URLs and be able to clearly describe and reproduce the problem or at least find additional instances of it.
I have received feedback via public comments here, private messages here, emails, and one time a phone call.
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Thank you! That is good to know. I appreciate your feedback and will begin to keep a list of PIDs for obvious duplicates that are generated by gedcom uploads.
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Carolyn
It's 'Brett'.
There is NO valid REASON, for continuing to allow, the "Upload", of GEDCOM File, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch'.
One, really has to wonder, if 'FamilySearch' is ... "Listen" ...
It seems like, 'FamilySearch', has made up its mind, to ALLOW, the "Upload", of GEDCOM File, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch', regardless ...
As I previously suggested ...
'FamilySearch', HAS had COUNTLESS requests/pleading/begging/(and, even) "Demands", over these, MANY; Many, many, Years, to STOP, the "Upload", of GEDCOM Files, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch'.
ALL, to NO avail ...
Plus, the 'Fiddling around the edges', with 'beefing-up' the "Compare" feature/facility/function, of the "Process", has; and, will NOT, make any difference - NO matter how robust, the "Compare" feature/facility/function is made.
Users/Patrons, WILL still do, what they WANT to do, regardless ...
And, MOST Users/Patrons, WANT to "Upload", THEIR "Data", regardless, of what is ALREADY in 'FamilySearch'.
The "Compare" feature/facility/function will NOT "Stop" that ...
The, BEST; and, ONLY, action, that is required, by 'FamilySearch', is to STOP, the ability, to be able to "Upload", GEDCOM Files, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch',
Nothing more, nothing less ...
GEDCOM Files, ONLY belong, in the "Genealogies" Part, of 'FamilySearch'.
GEDCOM Files, DO NOT belong, in the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch'.
It is that simple.
Just my thoughts.
Brett
ps: from one, who HAS had their "Ancestral" Lines, DAMAGED / RUINED (in some cases. beyond REPAIR), through the "Upload", of OTHER Users/Patrons GEDCOM Files, into the "Family Tree" Part, of 'FamilySearch' - WITHOUT due care and attention.
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