Why does Ordinances Ready suggest ordinances out of order?
I was looking for sealing to spouse ordinances through ordinances ready and all 5 couples I was offered were not yet ready for sealing to spouse. The endowments were still uncompleted. I know that historically some sealings were done before the preliminary ordinances and do understand that all ordinances will be effective when all are completed (regardless of order), but I have been hesitant to go out of order. Is it okay to do that or should I wait until all the endowments are completed to seal spouses or children to parents who have not yet been sealed? THANKS!
Answers
-
Yes, you may perform a Sealing to Spouse ordinance prior to other ordinances. Here is an article which will clarify this for you. Thank you
2 -
Christine
I am just another 'lowly' User/Patron ...
[ And, I happen to be a member of the Church ... ]
This is an ongoing dilemma, for many Members of the Church.
The matter, has been canvased, on numerous occasions, in the various 'iterations' for the 'FamilySearch' Forums.
One does not really have to be too concerned ...
We have been advised, that regardless if "Ordinances" are done 'Out of Sequence', not to worry; as, those "Ordinances" that are done 'Out of Sequence' simply DO NOT take effect, UNTIL the prerequisite "Ordinances" are "Completed".
And, most importantly ...
"Ordinances" that are done 'Out of Sequence' DO NOT have to be done again; as, they are STILL "Valid".
Here are some "Knowledge Articles" in 'FamilySearch':
Ordinances performed out of order
https://www.familysearch.org/help/helpcenter/article/ordinances-performed-out-of-order
Which states, among other things:
Quote
------------------
Vicarious ordinances performed out of sequence are valid, but they become effective only after the prerequisite ordinances are completed.
------------------
And ...
Correct order of temple ordinances
https://www.familysearch.org/help/helpcenter/article/correct-order-of-temple-ordinances
Which states, among other things:
Quote
------------------
Although vicarious ordinances performed out of sequence are valid, they become effective only after the prerequisite ordinances are completed.
------------------
And ...
Of course ...
Why are the temple ordinance dates out of order in Family Tree?
Where it states, among other things:
Quote
------------------
- The ordinances were inadvertently or intentionally performed out of order in error.
------------------
Plus ...
Most IMPORTANTLY ...
In one of the aforementioned "Knowledge Article":
Ordinances performed out of order
https://www.familysearch.org/help/helpcenter/article/ordinances-performed-out-of-order
Which states, among other things:
Quote
------------------
It is preferable to have the ordinances done in sequence
[ Note: The Words ... It is preferable ]
------------------
And ...
In the other of the aforementioned "Knowledge Article":
Correct order of temple ordinances
https://www.familysearch.org/help/helpcenter/article/correct-order-of-temple-ordinances
It also states, among other things:
Quote
------------------
- Sealing of a husband and wife and sealing of children to parents (if possible). Whenever possible, parents should be sealed to each other before the children are sealed to the parents.
[ Note: The Words ... Whenever possible ]
[ And, once again ... ]
Although vicarious ordinances performed out of sequence are valid, they become effective only after the prerequisite ordinances are completed.
------------------
Now ...
All That Said ...
Here is a reference, specifically about "OrdinancesReay", regarding "Sealing to Spouse".
"Knowledge Article", in 'FamilySearch':
How do I find family names for the temple with Ordinances Ready?
It also states, among other things:
Quote
------------------
Before you start
...
Notes:
...
- Ordinances Ready does not determine if pre-requisite ordinances have been completed when sealing-to-spouse ordinances are requested. Please ensure that baptism, initiatory and endowment have been completed for each individual before proceeding with a sealing ordinance.
------------------
So ...
That Said ...
Really ...
The choice is yours ...
As, to whether or not, you proceed, with the "Ordinances", that you received through "OrdinancesReady".
And ...
Most importantly ...
Please be aware that the "OrdinancesReady" feature/function/facility is ONLY, really, for a quick; and, easy, process of, FINDING; and, PRINTING, the "Temple" Cards, when one is going to visit the "Temple", that day or the next, when one DOES NOT have ANY "Temple" Cards, 'on-hand', available.
The "OrdinancesReady" feature/function/facility is certainly NO substitute, for doing one's due diligence, well IN ADVANCE of visiting the "Temple" of, FINDING; and, PRINTING, the "Temple" Cards, for one's Ancestors, to have 'on-hand', available.
I know that this might not give you comfort and address your concerns; but, I hope that this gives you some more perspective.
Brett
0 -
I have a concern that our Logan Temple officiators says that we should do the ordinances in order. On your ordinance ready, under Seal to parents, I have 6 out of 10 who need to have parents temple work done. Under sealed to spouse 4 out of 5 need one or two who need to have ordinances completed. I would appreciate it if you had a button that would say, send back, reject, or something by the name of the person not elegable and than allow another name to come up so that I can have the full ten names to be sealed to their parents and 5 sealed to spouse when I go to the temple. Please help me to be able to do so. Thank you for your attention, I appeciate it so much. Sincerely, Leone K. Hatch, Pioneer Valley Lodge, 2351 North 400 East, apt. #341 North Logan, Utah 84341.
(435)754-8089, or [email protected]
0 -
Thank you for posting your concern in the Community. We appreciate you trying to do things the right way. Be assured you are not the only one to have the questions about ordinances, and doing them in order. It is confusing. We are enclosing the article link about Ordinances Ready, which also contains several other article links. One of the links may have a better answer to your concern.
We hope this helps clarify the issue.
0 -
Interesting! This newer article says that we should be sure that prerequsite ordinances are completed before the sealing. The new handbook says they 'must' be done before a sealing.
So, again, why does ordinances ready give those?
1 -
Ordinances done out of order have always been valid, just not "in effect" until pre-requisite ordinances are completed. The following article "Correct order of temple ordinances" explains:
Vicarious ordinances performed out of sequence are valid, but they become effective only after the prerequisite ordinances are completed.
The FamilySearch Family Tree website enforces the correct order of individual ordinances: baptism, confirmation, initiatory, and endowment.
It is preferred that sealings be done after individual ordinances, but it is not required. Family Tree does not enforce the order of sealings for deceased persons. A deceased couple can be sealed before their individual ordinances are done. Likewise, a deceased child can be sealed to deceased parents before the parents are sealed and before the parents’ individual ordinances are done.
If a sealing ordinance was done out of order, you should simply make sure that the rest of the ordinances get done. You do not need to report the issue to FamilySearch Support. Nor do you need to redo the sealing. The sealing becomes valid after the individual ordinances are done.
Related articles
My ancestor's ordinances were performed out of order during his or her lifetime
Why are the temple ordinance dates out of order in Family Tree?
I cannot print a family name card from my family names list
The Ordinances Ready system gives the Ordinances that are requested. It is up to the reserver to determine if the Ordinance needs to be completed and when.
We hope this clarifies the issue .
8
0 -
@ChristensenChristine1 , clearly points out the dilemma. The General HB (you would think the most accurate statement of policy) and that KA clearly state the policy contrary to Ordinances Ready's results. The only way I can reconcile that is to assume that Ordinances Ready is an authorized Exception to the general rule and that the KA re Ordinances Ready instructions is incorrect, quite a stretch
0 -
I am also confused. A couple of week ago, our Temple recorder instructed the ordinance workers that ordinance must be done in order. If that ordinance worker should check to insure the prerequisite ordinances are completed before preforming an ordinance out of sequence.
I cited the FS knowledge article and they trumped it with a quote from the First Presidency.
Can someone please explain the apparent discrepancy between these two policy statements?
Thank you. I would just like to remove the apparent confusion.
0 -
Kent
As, you will no doubt be aware ...
I am just another 'lowly' User/Patron ...
[ And, I happen to be a member of the Church ... ]
And, certainly NO ONE in Authority; nor, an "Official 'FamilySearch' Representative" ...
Just in passing ...
I would really like to know, what "They" CITED, regarding ANY "First Presidency" reference, in relation to the matter.
BECAUSE ...
IF, "They" CITED, the First Presidency, Message of, "Names Submitted for Temple Ordinances", that is 'Dated' 29 February 2012; THEN, that makes NO reference whatsoever, to the "Order" of the Work being performed.
And, of course, they may be CITING, from the "General Handbook of Instructions" (which has been updated).
There are conflicting directions, amongst ALL the various instruments.
UNLESS ...
Of course ...
The "Temples", HAVE been GIVEN, a NEW (ie. RECENT) "Direction", direct from the First Presidency (or, the "Temple Committee"; and/or, "Temple Department"), that "Countermands", ALL of those "Knowledge Articles", that I previous referenced above.
And, I am not saying, that such is not the case ... it certainly could be ...
Plus, as I also previously proffered:
- This is an ongoing dilemma, for many Members of the Church; and,
- The matter, has been canvased, on numerous occasions, in the various 'iterations' for the 'FamilySearch' Forums.
Perhaps, the "Temples", have been given some autonomy (or, on the other hand, been told), to ENFORCE, that the "Temple Work, MUST be DONE in "Order", regardless - in ALL cases.
Especially, if the "Direction", to the Workers, of the "Temple", was GIVEN by the "Temple Recorder".
Interesting, that something, that is so controversial, was not GIVEN by the "Temple President" (or, one of the "Temple Presidency") - although, the "Temple Recorder", is of high enough "Authority', in their own right.
The REAL problem/issue WILL be, the 'Time" required/taken, to do the requisite checks.
[ Especially, with regard to BOTH, "Sealing to Spouse"; and, "Sealing to Parents" ... ]
As per normal ... Confusion Reigns ...
MOST try to do the right thing; and, do the Work in "Order" ...
Unfortunately, some such works, 'falls through the cracks' ... as NO "System" is PERFECT ...
Just my thoughts.
Brett
0 -
Thank you for your comments Brett.
I am hoping the FamilySearch moderator of this community will provide further clarification on this.
1
