Microfilm/fiche question
Hello Community! I am SO new here and TOTALLY new to searching for ancestors. My entire family on both sides is from Italy, so I'm in deep with very old Italian records. I found my grandfather's birth records last night and almost fell over. He was born in a small town near Pisa in 1887 and he was an orphan! The record (which my mom translated) even had the name of his mother! But...I didn't find his record by using a search engine and inputting his name. Somehow, I found 3,000 images of his town records in a particular date range, and I estimated about where 1887 would be, and literally eyeballed each record until I found his name. My question is: is there a way to 'search' on the images page itself? I've looked at all icons and there isn't a search feature. I suppose it would mean that all the names within the images would have to have been digitalized? I found one suggestion about looking at an 'index' but I don't see an index feature on the microfilm page. "Indexing" is different, this suggestion was about 'using the index'. Any thoughts would be appreciated! Thank you, Laura
Answers
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Instead of looking through Microfilm, you can go into Family Tree, click on "Search" button at top. A window opens and click "Records"
This will open a window that will will let you enter personal information about the person you are looking for, then click Search. This will opens all the digitized records that are in family search for that person you are looking for.
Don't know if you want to do it, but you can also start you family tree in Family Search. It is free to use. If you have yourself and your relatives in Family Tree you can attach the records to the person in your family tree.
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Thank you so much! After I wrote this, I did a few experiments and I suddenly "found" the index that the instructions refer to and as I thought, unless the record is digitized (which mine are not) there is no index.
I've used the 'records' search and my relatives aren't showing up during the time they were in Italy- only USA census data shows. However, I still think I can work with this. And thank you for the suggestion of the family tree. I will start one and build on it!!
I just found my grandmother and I'm SO HAPPY!
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As you are new to using FamilySearch, it might be beneficial to learn more about the links that are available if you click Search at the top of the FamilySearch pages.
The FamilySearch Help Center has specific knowledge articles that will help you understand how to search in various programs or features.
Search Records-takes you to the Search Historical Records page where you can do research in several ways. This article might be helpful when you do your research from this location.
Images-this link takes you to the Digital Library which is being expanded every day making billions of digital images available for our guests who work online.
Catalog-this link will allow you to search in the Family History Catalog which contains information about microfilms that were created by FamilySearch. We hope this additional article will help you expand your use of the FamilySearch catalog.
Perhaps as you learn about these different areas where you can do your research, you may find it helpful to go to the Research Wiki link to locate Wiki articles about specific locations. Many users go to the following Wiki article which provides links to online genealogy records specifically for Italy. We hope you will find the article helpful and will use the Research Wiki to find similar information in the future.
We wish you success with your continued research.
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Hi CD, VERY helpful, thank you. I definitely jumped right in without systematically figuring out different search venues, options and started clicking things and while I've had success with more than a few documents so far, I'm now finding the need to learn more about "how" to do this. Will read the ariticles! Last night I was searching systematically through about 3,000 doc images of birth/death records in Sardinia. My eyes blurred. Haha. Thank you again! Laura
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Julia Szent-Györgyi
Julia, I don't know how to reach you so I hope you get this. You left me a very useful comment yesterday that has disappeard from my discussion! I received an email telling me of your comment, read it quickly on my phone last night, and just got on my computer now to read it thoroughly-- it had valuable information about searching. Why is the comment gone????? If it's at all possible, could you repost? I hope you get this. Thank you,
Laura
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Laura, I haven't a clue what happened to my post, and unfortunately, I don't have it saved anywhere.
@CDBurk, as a mod who has replied to this thread, do you have any idea what happened to my post? It started with something like "You jumped right into the deep end".
I don't recall trying to edit it , so it can't have been the usual edit-demon that ate it. I certainly didn't write anything objectionable, I don't think, besides a comment about how the search interface has been dumbed down and the result is frankly awful, but that's just plain fact, if perhaps a bit snarkily presented.
Is there another mod I should be "@"-flagging? I spent nearly an hour writing that post, and I believe it had useful information in it for many people, so having it disappear like this, without a word, is disheartening.
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@Mark McLemore, are you able to assist with Julia's disappearing post?
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The broken comment link appears to be: https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/comment/386358#Comment_386358
I found that browsing old notifications... hope this helps. I also find Julia's search hints helpful - Thanks!
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Thank you all for trying--- I truly hope the post can be recovered. It was RICH with info.
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I've tried to re-write what I remember from my post. (This time I'm saving the document in my text editor!)
You jumped right into the deep end. Many genealogists never even learn that you can browse through images to find things; they start and end their research with searches through indexes using the Records item of the Search menu (unfortunately with newfound difficulty due to a new-and-[dis]improved interface).
Some clarifications of terminology to begin with: digitizing is what turns a physical image (such as a page in a book or a photograph on a reel of film) into an array of numbers that a computer can interpret and display as pixels on a screen. Indexing is what turns the salient parts of a document (be that on paper or on a computer screen) into a text record that a computer can interpret and search through. Most indexing is done by human beings, because computers cannot (yet) read handwriting. (Neither can people, often, which is why no index should ever be taken at its word.)
FamilySearch has a vast collection of genealogical documents from around the world. Most of it used to be on microfilm. These have now all been digitized, so they're actually digital image groups, but we still call them films. This means that many things have two "film" numbers: the number of the original, physical film reel, and the number assigned to the group of digital images created from it (labeled DGS in the catalog, I believe for "digital Genealogical Society [number]"). FS also has materials that were acquired by digitizing documents directly, without any microfilm involved, but they're still organized and cataloged as "films".
Many (most?) of the now-digitized films can be viewed online on FamilySearch. As you discovered, paging through images is actually a remarkably efficient navigation method for chronologically-arranged material, when you know the exact date. When all you know is a name and vague date range, on the other hand, it gets Really Tedious Really Fast. This is where indexes come in handy.
If you're looking at an image that has index entries associated with it on FamilySearch, this is normally indicated on the "Index" tab at the bottom of the film viewer window. You can click on the piece-of-paper icon to the left of a name on that tab to go to the index detail page for that name. This will tell you the title of the collection, among other things, which you can then use in the "Find a Collection" search box on the Search - Records landing page, thereby bypassing the new search interface, at least for the initial inputs. (Unfortunately, there's no getting around the new search results [lack-of-]display.)
There are situations (most often involving really old indexes) where the "Index" tab is empty despite the existence of an associated index. In such cases, you can try the other tab at the bottom of the film viewer window ("Information"); click an item on it to go to the Catalog entry containing that item, and look for the magnifying glass icon ("search this film"). Alternately, scroll up on the catalog page; if there's an associated index, there will often be a link to it (usually in red) between the catalog header and the details/notes.
The majority of films have not been indexed, and even on films that have been, this does not necessarily mean everything on the film. In my neck of the woods (Hungary and Slovakia), for example, it is mostly only the baptisms that have been indexed, so I have to page through images to find marriages and deaths, even on films that have the magnifying glass. There are also baptisms that I only found by paging through, because they were missed by indexers, or so badly mis-indexed that there was no finding them by name.
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Julia!!!
I cannot thank you ENOUGH for reposting. Sooooo helpful and I know, time-consuming for you. Yes, I totally jumped into the deep end and in my zealous state, started clicking things and bouncing around and found myself RIGHT where I needed to be. The problem is that I had no idea how I actually arrived where I needed to be so in these ensuing days, I've taken the long way around to get back. It's astounding how one click leads to another and suddenly, I'm looking at beautiful old civil records and recognizing my family names. My ancestors have come alive.
I agree that there's a tedious element to clicking image after image when I don't know the exact date of an event (just a year), HOWEVER, I have 'accidentally' found three records that I would not have otherwise found and they're helping round out my family's story. My mom is Italian so can translate the documents I'm finding (mostly- "old" Italian, plus the handwriting, presents a challenge) but I know enough of the language that by scanning a record, I can correlate other family members' names in order to know that the entry is the one I'm looking for. I am primarily navigating the 1800s.
The wealth of information is the actual images (digitized!) is unbelievable. We've already dispelled several family 'facts'.
I agree-- the imaging, indexing, and "process" may also have its flaws, but I never thought I'd get as far as I have right now. I'm bumping into an issue with two deaths- one I know specifically where it happened (Spanish Flu death, 1918, Italy), and the other I know approximately where, plus the year, and I'm stuck with both. I'm now branching out into church and cemetery records. The other thing I've bumped into is locked images. The "lock" refers me to an affiliate library, one of which I have found near me. I just have to wait until I can get there during hours of operation and hope they have public computers, since some libraries took public computers away for COVID reasons. Another concern I have about affiliate libraries is that I'm pretty sure I won't be able to download an image, because that would make the 'lock' feature pointless. I'm prepared to take a photo of the images.
You mention indicies and how I wish the images I've researched offered them! But, as you mention, the index tabs have been empty for me. So I've learned to spot the covers of the ledgers in the THOUSANDS of images and click on those to find the year I need. Then I go image by image. There was one instance in Sardinia records that I literally could NOT figure out how the images were being presented...so I made it through 1200 images (yes, click by click) before my eyes gave out. There were 3,000 total. Ha.
As you mention, I have had difficulty with the 'records' search. I was surprised by having difficulty, but it's what got me to clicking away and eventually finding the digitized images. Whatever the new interface is, it doesn't really sort the way I expected. I've signed up for a free trial on three other sites and plan to dig away until my trial is up. I don't necessarily think that one site will have more information than another, although I'm sure that's the case to SOME degree, but I already found one death certificate that familysearch didn't offer. So that makes it worthwhile.
The bottom line of all of this is learning to search systematically and refining my search as I go. I know that comes from experience, which, in a few days, I've gained to a degree. It helps SO MUCH to have input, so thank you for giving me some tips, for giving me some language around digitized images, and for reposting, because I know that was a lot!! It seems like researching is not a one-stop shop, so I'm glad I branched out a little. Once I get to my local affiliate library, I may even know more.
Sincerely,
Laura
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"Another concern I have about affiliate libraries is that I'm pretty sure I won't be able to download an image, because that would make the 'lock' feature pointless. I'm prepared to take a photo of the images."
Most records that I've browsed which are restricted to affiliate libraries and/or FHCs can be downloaded. It's fairly rare for records to not be downloadable. But I have no experience with Italian records. It all depends on what the record owner negotiated with FamilySearch when they let them digitize their records.
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