Download Error - Downloading Historical Records images possibly a problem at Family History Center
After downloading a random number of images from the same film, I get a "reload error" and I have to wait 5 to 10 minutes in order to download that image. Do you know what is causing this? This reload error is really annoying and it would be nice to fix it.
I like to research at home and come up with a list of images I would like to see, but then I keep running into this reload error. I tried to see if there was a specific number of images when this occurs, but I have not been able to identify a pattern. The other day while doing this at home, I also ran into a bandwidth error. What is that about?
The reload error has occurred several times at home over my wifi, at a family history center and the main library in Salt Lake City. Attached is a screen shot of this error. ( I have a short screen capture video demonstrating the error, but I cannot upload it. I also have included a screen shot of the bandwidth error which occurred at my home over my wifi.
Thank you
Kent Jaffa
Best Answer
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@Kent Jaffa, It appears that the problem that you describe is covered by the Help Center article, I get an error message when downloading from Historical Records. I quote it here for your convenience.
"If you see the error message below as you download records or images, please send an email as requested in the message.
"'t appears that you may have data needs that exceed the general use license and purpose for this web application. Please contact recordrequests@FamilySearch.org for information on proper access of FamilySearch data. If you believe that you have been improperly blocked, please send an explanation of your needs to searchfeedback@churchofjesuschrist.org.'
If you see the message below, the system blocked your ability to download more records than our contract agreements permit. If you feel this message does not apply to your activities, please send an email to recordrequests@FamilySearch.org for information about access. If you feel you are being improperly blocked, please send an explanation of your needs to searchfeedback@churchofjesuschrist.org."
This seems to fit the situation that you describe.
FamilySearch does indeed limit the number of images that you can download. When you exceed the limit, you get the message above (as you described) and are place in a "time out".
Please note the invitation to contact searchfeedback@familysearch.org if you feel that you have data needs that exceed the general use license and purpose of this web application.
Hope this helps.
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@Kent Jaffa Thank you for sharing the screen shots. From what I can see this is probably caused by your internet provider. You could talk to them about increasing your bandwidth.
But there are also some other trouble shooting items that may help:
Frequently clearing your cookies on your browser: (I clear cookies about 3 times a week) https://www.familysearch.org/help/helpcenter/article/how-do-i-delete-all-of-the-cookies-and-temporary-files-stored-by-my-internet-browser
Making sure that your browser is up to date: (I update my browser about every 2 weeks) https://www.familysearch.org/help/helpcenter/article/which-internet-browsers-are-compatible Please note from the above article that the browser needs to be the current version or the previous version.
Also, if there is a specific group of images that you are having problems viewing you can ask that question in the FamilySearch Community in the Search category. They may be able to determine other reasons that you are receiving the above errors.
Hopefully this will help. But I do recommend clearing cookies and making sure your browser is up to date.
We are here to help you in any way we can and want your experience with FamilySearch to be a positive one. Best wishes and success in continuing your family history research.
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The issue is not with @Kent Jaffa's internet provider since he is at the FHC, downloading records to review at home.
Kent, I've run into the same issue occasionally when I was at an FHC or an affiliate library. I've found that switching browsers, if you have that option, can allow you to continue downloading.
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The bandwidth issue may be my home internet problem, but as Aine says the "Reload" issue is not due to my internet since it occurs at the main Family History Library as well as at FHCs.
I have also noticed that I can switch browsers and look the image up again, or I can just wait about 10 minutes or so until it will download without the reload error. It does not work if you open another tab in the same browser.
My hope is that FamilySearch Engineers can fix the reload issue or at least explain why it is happening.
Kent
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I've found that I run into the Bandwidth issue (FHC or Affiliate) when I'm on a roll and downloading fairly quickly. If I get into a "measured rhythm" I can download easily without running into the problem.
I believe - from what I've been told - the regulation or measured download is intentional.
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Thank you. I have discussed this with a FS engineer who works with FHCs and he did not know about it. Neither do the staff of the FHL know why, at least the ones I have talked to.
I was direct to post this on FS feedback in order to find out why. I hope an FS engineer will let us know. It certainly hinders those who go prepared to a FHC or the FHL.
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A Hungarian genealogist who is also a programmer has stated on multiple occasions that FamilySearch intentionally inserts a "timeout" into downloading images.
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Yes, @Julia Szent-Györgyi, that's the same I've been told.
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I found reference to these sorts of throttling issues at:
So yes - I do not know the threshold limitation - but there does appear to be one/some. I am sorry you are experiencing access limitations - but I am sure these issues are more about quantity of download images. Familysearch must not want you to download 'excessive' quantities of a collection. They must wonder if you are researching individual families or communities, etc.
At least you have been accessing the records - where many struggle with accessing the index. I wish the industry would allow index access - freely available - and reference to 'partner access' for image access - if required by contract. After all isn't that the point - make the records easier to find? Anyway it's above my pay grade - but that's my 'two cents' ... Why make it a 'difficult' Easter egg hunt? Why not just refer to the current access 'partner' up-front?
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I do not know about intentional delays. I worked with one FS engineer on this and he did not know. I have now been referred to a second FS engineer and we will see if he can answer this questions.
I am researching in the late 1700s and early 1800s in Scotland. These families are blood related to me and they had many children, up to 14. As you know, the number of images necessary to review is large and they are almost all in the same parish and on only a couple of films. Thus, it is easy to run into this error.
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This is Julia's sister hijacking her account to comment on something that happens to fall in my area of expertise:
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Note that HTTP error 429 explains exactly what is happening: it's a "Too Many Requests" error. This means that FamilySearch has set a limit on the number of requests a client can make in a given time period. (This is why changing browsers works: different browser = different client, as far as a web server is concerned.) The error page may tell you somewhere in its headers what the timeout is, i.e. how long you have to wait until trying again, but whether you can get your browser to reveal that information to you is a different question.
The "bandwidth exceeded" message is different, but it still seems to be coming from FamilySearch, not the internet access provider - note the "thank you for using FamilySearch.org" line at the bottom of the error message.
(Ignore the mod: they clearly have no idea what they're talking about.)
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We now return you to your regularly-scheduled
gobbledygook, ahem, sorry, genealogical discussion.2 -
Hiya sister of Julia.
What is that quote ...
I love the mods.
@CHold Thank you for your help and volunteering - please be nice to mods.
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Lets hope FS will fix the issue
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"FamilySearch does indeed limit the number of images that you can download. When you exceed the limit, you get the message above (as you described) and are place in a "time out"."
Yup - what we all said.
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I HIGHLY doubt there is a limit. For the past few days I have gotten this error on my first or second download, I got an excel sheet with numerous times and links proving that the limit is false.
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@CherisseBurden the information comes from a FamilySearch Help Article, as mentioned above.
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There has been a issue when downloading images and getting the 429 error. A couple of weeks ago, a familysearch engineer told me he or she was working on it, but it may take a while. I do not know the present status, but I am impressed that they are willing to address my concern.
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I got that error years ago when I first tried using FS the old school way. And recently in his YouTube channel Ron Tanner stated that FS is becoming more restrictive.
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What do you mean by more restrictive?
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The question really is, what does Ron Tanner mean by more restrictive? I think his comment was in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB929xGnKUo . If it wasn't that episode, it was another in that series the last few months.
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I am so sorry that you are still having problems in reading these images at the Family History Center. My suggestion is that the next time your are at your local Family History Center and you continue to have this problem. Have the leader of the Family History Center contact us at 800-406-1830 and select the queue Family History Center. Maybe if we get one of the technical people to look at that particular computer they can help determine what is going on. We have found that some internet providers for Family History Center cause problems as well.
Hopefully that will help.
I am going to move this conversation from the Search category to the Family History Center category in the community.
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There is already a FS engineer looking into this. This 429 error occurs at home, the FHC and the FHL
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Agreed, the error has nothing to do with FHC or FHL.
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@dontiknowyou thanks for reference to Ron Tanner YouTube -very helpful to know a little about the roadmap ahead. It sounds like they are considering some important changes.
As far as 'restrictive' - I didn't hear him say that word - but it does sound like Familysearch is considering restricting open-edit of Family Tree for near-living generations (I think he mentioned 4 generations). This is definitely an idea I support (interesting that this video was a month before suggesting my version of the idea *) :
He also mentioned the need to continue restricting record access (theme of this thread) because of contractual obligations. Access through Family History Centers he mentions still has some things to work through before getting to access restrictions for Affiliate Libraries. So yes, access from home may be more restrictive - including throttling of heavy downloads (as Kent above has been experiencing). So 'restrictive' meaning monitoring access/downloads of records.
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I have been at the Family History Library all week and it sure isn't like it used to be. That download error is constantly appearing on all the computers and in addition they are all freezing from time to time. The tech staff say they don't know why it is happening. In addition, if you are planning to visit the library please know that it is very noisy, impossible to do in depth research really. The desk staff say that they are moving away from a library model. On the 2nd floor the volunteers talk loudly to each other constantly and gather in small groups and chat. They also use the computers to train each other and are very loud while they are doing that. It's frustrating to come all this way for all this. These new volunteers clearly need further training.
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Ron Tanner also mentioned briefly in response to a question that they were doing more throttling due to inappropriate use. That's the relevance here.
If a lot of wholesale downloading is going on, overloading the available capacity, we may all be experiencing a long, drawn out denial of service attack.
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Beth
If you are at the library, go down to B2 and it is more quiet there.
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I went to my FHC and got the 409 Error again while downloading images. I asked the FS engineer working on this and he reported back that they thought they had fixed this. He made another attempt to fix this and asked that I let him know if it occurs again, so if you get this error after today, please let me know and I will report it.
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Attempt at humor: 409 error = clean out the cookies 🍪?
@Kent Jaffa I don't know what could be fixed. Doesn't the technician indicate that this throttling is 'supposed to be occurring' based on bandwidth/exceeded download threshold situations? Maybe your placement in 'timeout' is correct?
Maybe post details of your 'list of images' you are attempting to download - if you are wanting someone in Community to attempt duplicating (self-imposed 'timeout' for your profile)? What percent of the collection are you at having downloaded now?
Is your list typically from the same collection? As you mention above you are researching an entire community (thus downloading a bunch of images and running into this problem). I suppose you will continue running into this problem. Why not just view them on FamilySearch or another paywalled partner site? Oh you need to download at FHC because you cannot from home? As mentioned the exceeded threshold will be attached to your profile - so as mentioned - will follow you wherever you are trying to download from. ... Again I'm not sure anything can be fixed here - and Community certainly cannot change this. Good luck with engineering!
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I'm the director of a Family History Center. We first encountered the "Bandwidth Limit Exceeded" issue YEARS ago. We would sometimes get the message even for the first patron downloading his/her first image (huh???)
We called the FS Support line: (1) they didn't know what caused it, (2) they didn't know what the limit was, (3) they didn't know how to get around it, etc., etc. It seems that nothing has changed.
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