Could anyone help me decipher the German text from this Swiss marriage record?
I'm struggling to understand the town names. Thank you.
Antworten
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@Switzerland Genealogy Research
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Here is the text vs the uploaded file. I appreciate your help very much.
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@REDRODRUNNER2 REDRODRUNNER2, do you have a link to the original record? It's pretty blurry when I zoom in. Or do you know what parish the record is from?
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Thanks for responding so quickly. I was just listening to your presentation on how to read Gothic writing 😀
Bern/Thieracern/15 page 137
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The last word in the record is the place called: Uetendorf.
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I believe the three places mentioned in this marriage record from Thierachern are:
Kienersrüti, Kirchdorf, and Uetendorf.
Here is a link to a map for Thierachern:
Thierachern should be in the center of the map and outlined in red.
North of Thierachern on the map is Uetendorf.
North of Uetendorf on the map is Kienersrüti (which in your record is spelled: Kienersrütt_?).
North of Kienersrüti on the map is Kirchdorf.
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Thank you so much! This is very helpful. Does this mean that Johannes Hanni was born in Kienerstuti, Rosina born in Uetendorf, and they married in Kirchdorf? Is there any refence to their parents or their ages?
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This is what the record says:
Johannes is from/of Kienersrüti in the parish of Kirchdorf.
Rosina is from/of Uetendorf.
At the time of the marriage, they were both in Uetendorf.
No ages for either of them.
After Johannes Hänni's name in the first line is the abbreviation "Johs." which most likely stands for "Johannes". This is perhaps the groom's father, but the record doesn't state this specifically.
There is no indication of Rosina Bähler's parents.
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Thank you so much. This information is a game changer. I had thought that he was from Koniz and she was from Baden. Without a doubt, this is their marriage record because I have a sworn affidavit from her stating the date and Canton of her marriage. He came in America around 1850 and died as a private in the civil war. Now I have a new treasure trove to look into. Now I'm off to find emigration records and where birth records from 1815 in Kienersruti are listed.
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Translation of the record:
First column: 5.
Second column: January 20 and 27, February 3 [these are likely that dates of the marriage proclamations].
Third column: Johannes Hänni, "Johs." [Johannes?], of/from Kienersrütt_?, Parish Kirchdorf, and Rosina Bähler, of/from, and both in Uetendorf.
Fourth column: Kirchdorf, on the 8th of February [this is likely the marriage date].
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Given that the groom is from Kienersrüti in the Parish of Kirchdorf, here is the link to the catalog record for Kirchdorf from the Family History Library catalog:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/761691?availability=Family History Library
Notice in the "Notes" section of this catalog record that one of the places that is included in this parish is Kienersrüti. This is where you should look for the groom's birth/baptismal record.
Given that the bride is from Uetendorf in the Parish of Thierachern, here is the link to the catalog record for Thierachern from the Family History Library catalog:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/782275?availability=Family History Library
Notice in the "Notes" section of this catalog record that one of the places included in this parish is Uetendorf. This is where you should look for the bride's birth/baptismal record.
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Oh how fun, @REDRODRUNNER2 REDRODRUNNER2! 😀 I hope you're finding the videos helpful.
Wonderful answers by Robert! I agree completely with the places and suggestions he provided. In the marriage entry, it also states that the marriage actually took place in Kirchdorf (i.e., the groom's parish), so I looked the marriage entry up there. The Kirchdorf marriage record (linked) is wonderfully detailed and states:
After proclamations made on 20 Jan, 27 Jan, and 3 Feb,
Johannes Hänni, [son of] Joh[ann] from Kienersrüthe [Kienersrütti], [baptized in] Thierachern on 26 Jan 1823,
and
Rosina Bähler, [daughter of] the deceased Christ/Christian, from and living in Uetendorf, [baptized in] Thierachern on 22 July 1821,
were married here [in Kirchdorf] on 8 Feb 1850.
Johann's birth record states that Johann, legitimate son of Johann Hänni of Uetendorf and Anna Maria Fins of Wichtrach, was born in Kienersrütti on 14 Jan 1823 and baptized [in Thierachern] on 26 Jan 1823.
I found Rosina's birth listed at the end of the 1821 baptisms (linked); the record states that according to witness from priest Schmid from Murten, Rosina, born 7 [July 1821], was baptized there [in Murten] on 22 July 1821; parents: Christian Bähler [son of deceased Christ(ian)] of Uetendorf and Catharina Reiben of Oberbalm (see Murten, Oberbalm, and Thierachern on this linked map).
To continue following their family lines back, I suggest browsing the births for siblings of both Johann/Johannes and Rosina and then, once the siblings run out, to start looking for their parents' marriage records.
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Thank you so much! The detail is wonderful and the map makes it all so real. You and Robert have blasted down my brick wall. The links to the records are not available to view outside of a family history center or affiliate library so I anxiously wait the day post-COVID when I can visit to see them in person, look for more ancestors and practice my new Old Gothic reading skills. Your assistance is much appreciated.
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You're very welcome, @REDRODRUNNER2 REDRODRUNNER2! And I love seeing the places on maps like this too.
For practicing the old German script, you might find two of the blue links on the right in the Austro-Hungarian Empire group helpful: "Old German script videos (beginner level)" and "Learn old German script videos."
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@REDRODRUNNER2 REDRODRUNNER2, good news! Even though you will have to wait for a family history center or affiliate library to open up to continue your research on these lines, I checked with the image permissions team and was told I am allowed to share the marriage record and the two birth records with you. They are found below.
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Let me know if you have any problems viewing these; if the images are too small, I can zoom in on just the specific entries and attach those.
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You are very welcome! Thanks for letting us know that our responses helped break down a brick wall for you. It's always appreciated to get feedback when you've responded to soneone's question.
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Thanks again for getting permission for me to see the records that you found. I ran across this marriage record in the Wichtrach records in the Bern Archive. Could this be the marriage of Johannes Sr. and Anne Marie?
It is from K Wichtrach 13 page 16.
If so, does it unlock any more good tidbits for me to track down?
Lastly, do you know if one can order official copies of the records that we've found so far from the Bern Canton archives?
I really appreciate your expertise and assistance.
Thank,
Michelle
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Any thoughts on the above? Thank you.
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