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I know what you mean .... been reading the records and trying to determine the names of the towns. Not having much luck.
Here is my take on this:
Matey Petrlik legal son of deceased Jana Petrlika of Michova 18 and Anny Kropacek of Samonice okre Strakonic kraj Pisek.
Maria legal daughter of Josefa Sohola farmer of Krl # 6 -- you likely have the correct one. and Kateriny Soukup of Nevosed #[22]
Witness: Matey Sokol and Anna Sokolova (married couple) Anna Mechurova of Michov # 6 -- possibly midwife
I could find Samonice on mapy.cz but the others ... guess they use different spellings ... or whatever they thought.
I keep forgetting the difference between kraj and okre. Okre is the smaller of the two; Kraj is the highest level of administration; then comes the state or province. Kraj is subdivided into okres. I guess it is similar to our town, county, state and then country.
I tried googling okres in Pisek but still could not find the correct one or a spelling close to it. Hope this helps a bit.
Now I see I am reading Josefa Sohola ... but the witnesses clearly look like Sokol and Sokolova .... guess I would stick with Josefa Sokola even though the h or k is questionable. Likely it is k.
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The last name is definitely Sokol ( I have a death index of Joseph Petrlik that lists his parents, Mothers last name was Sokol.) I'm going to check Samonice to see if I can find a marriage record.
This, I believe, is the birth record of Maria Sokol. We are back to awful handwriting. It does list her mothers town again (right before #22)
https://digi.ceskearchivy.cz/4761/175/2337/742/106/0
When time allows, maybe you could also check to see if we can pick any of the grandparents names noted and take a 2nd look at the town name of her mother. On to Samonice 😁
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This is not awful writing. This is common normal writing. Did you ever take the German Script handwriting courses?
Betseylee
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born 20 Oct 1854, christened 22 Oct 1854 Marie Sokoll, Katholic, female, legitimate, Father: Josef Sokoll Sedlak Strakomi? son of deceased Wogtecha Sokolla from Kat(ovice) house 6 and deceased Barbory born Krumml from Mnhowa (Mnichov?) house 54, Mother: Katerina daughter of Waclawa Newosed hse 22 and Kateriny born Siskowa from Wolmin or Wolnrin (can't find either spelling in Genteam gazatteer) house 1
No.8552
Place Name:Novosedly
Former Place Name:Newosed
Judicial District:Strakonice
Crown Land:Böhmen
Respective Archives
Competent Parish - Roman Catholic:Volenice1640/1640/1666Wittingau
Susan please make any necessary corrections.
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Betseylee ... thanks for your help ...for me and for Carl. I understand what you are saying about the German handwriting. I believe Carl's comment was just about how sometimes the writing is so clear and beautful ... and other times you can hardly make out the letters. That's one of the reasons when I write anything ... well most of the time I print to be sure someone else can read it. I think your help has given Carl new places to search. I'll take another look at it also. Re: the handwriting .... I have printed out several versions of the german handwriting which gives versions of each letter in fraktur, kurrent and suetterlin styles. I will look for a good link to publish ... I keep it handy so I can compare the handwriting in a record. There is another site that is helpful and fun to use ... a way to write your name in Sutterlein .... www.suetterlinschrift.de/Englisch/Write_your_name.htm If that doesn't work google Write Your Name in Suetterlin. This helps to recognize various letters.
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Hi Betseylee.. Thank you very much for your help, clarifying that town name (Novosedly) led me directly to finding the actual marriage record of Josef Sokol and Katerina Saukup!
https://digi.ceskearchivy.cz/8516/90/1803/2862/150/0
A few things came out of this..
-Previously I thought Katerina's last name was Paukup but it seems that is Saukup.
-I'm still wondering about the first name of Wogtecha Sokol. Not sure if this marriage record makes it clearer or not?
-Barbory Kruml is definitely from Mnichov, but one record says #54, this record says #50
-You mentioned that you thought Katerina Saukups father was Waclawa, but in this record I think it says Jana
-The biggest "Head Scratcher" is the last name of Kateriny Saukup's mother.. Kateriny Siskowa. But this appears to say Fisher if I'm reading it correctly.
I kind of chuckled when Susan chimed in and mentioned about neat handwriting. We have had two records, out so many, that were so neatly written I about fell over. You are absolutely right these are records with common writing.
I haven't had a chance to watch the German script records, but it's on my list to do. Thanks again for all your help, I'd be interested in your thoughts on this recent marriage record.
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I think Wogtecha is form of Wojciech (Voytech) a form of Albert.
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Sometimes people from Czechia have two given names and go by their middle name in some records. I still stick with Waclaw or Vachlav(Wencelslaus or Wenzel) and this record does say Jana (Johann).It looks like Wogtecha Sokola. When people move the house number changes. Hope this helps.
Betseylee
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For the interchangable letters, here is an article that will help. http://czechgenealogy.nase-koreny.cz/2015/05/czech-language-in-past.html#more
Betseylee
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Curious Betsy or Susan, what do you think is Katerina Saukup mothers maiden last name based on the 2 records Siskowa or Fisher or some combination maybe?
I am going to stick with your suggestion Betseylee and stay with Waclaw and I'll note Jan as an AKA
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Catching up with you and Betseylee .... I see Kateriny Saukup of Newosed # 21 daughter of Jana Saukup and Kateriny Fischer of Wolinec # 51; Sokol's address looks like Krta # 6 ... I don't know if Krt or Krta is correct. It shows both ways. Perhaps Krta because that is the spelling in the location column. Looks like the spelling for Barbary Kruml .. looks like it only has one letter m. Thanks Betselee for the link to the interchangeable letters.
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Thanks for all you do to help our site Susan. I sure need you.
Betseylee
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Happy to be of help. Years ago it was another volunteer somewhere ?? sometime ?? who led me to the online Czech records. Another volunteer helped me learn how to maneuver into New York City records. Someday I hope to make more contacts with people I am related to via DNA. And I have done that on the Jedlicka side of my family ... my mom's ancestors. We all need to help as much as we can. Maybe that is the silver lining for me during the pandemic ... I have time to do this and help people. Although at this point I would certainly prefer this virus to fade away completely so we all can get back to more normal times.
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Actually, I was used to staying home all the time. I like feeling connected with the world and being able to help people. When I do get to visit anyone in person, it feels special.
Betseylee
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Hey Susan, Awhile ago you mentioned some kind of website, where you type a name of a town and it gives a list of surrounding towns within a 50 mile or KM radius. I should have saved the link, but I didn't. Do you remember this?
It's been a rough couple days here, Our dog Riley who just loves to chase rabbits in our backyard must have accidently ran against a bush and puntured his eye. He may end up losing it. I've just felt terrible about my little buddy.
I have been finding a number of records from the Petrlik line and I'll definitely be posting some which I need help. But I'm still searching for the last key name from another line. Joseph Riedl
I am going to post the information on the thread I started for him, maybe you can take a look.
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Oh so sorry to hear about your pooch, Riley ... what a great name! Hope he recovers. I'll look up that site for you ... Odd thing is that sometimes it works and sometimes it just doesn't ...I don't know why ... perhaps they are updating it.
That is the only site I have not tried. I did find that Jihocesky is a kraj which means it is a district ...kind of like our state .... So the towns could lie in that district. No luck so far ... but I will try.
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Carl. Here is the website but it is not doing what it did in the past. www.jewishgen.org It was designed originally to locate villages that no longer exist ... I hope it starts to work properly.
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Carl .. would you post the links that gave you Jihocesky .. Osenic .. and Bezdekov Thanks it might help me locate your information.
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Hi Susan, Thanks for the well-wishes for Riley, we are praying he will pull though it.
This is a death index record of what I believe is a brother of Joseph Riedl.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NQ2Y-P1M
The town of Bezdekov was also found on this record, this is a school record of one of
josephs daughters. They mispelled the last name, but I know it is them. Take a close look at the town (bezdekov) and the Plzen which is next to it.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DB5Q-PBR?i=467&cc=1452409
I believe Josephs father was born Jan but in the US he went by John. I appreciate your help as always.
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Will take a look. You are corrent about the name Jan .... using the name John in the U.S. Those of us who read English pronounce Jan ... as similar to Jam ... but in Czech it is pronounced like or similar to Yan ... there is a website and it might even just be Google translate where you can listen to someone pronouncing the word. In German Johann is known as John in the U.S. also. Funny little story. I had a new neighbor who introducted himself as Joe Hahn. Well he said it so quickly what I heard was Johann. Of course, he did correct me.
Back later.
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Does Riley need a cover on his eye ... or must he wear one of those collars to prevent him from scratching. Years ago our kitten managed to get a birch tree seed under his outer eyelid. We were rescuing him from my mother-in-law's back yard. When we came to pick up the kitty there was his eye totally swollen. Our two daughters were heart broken thinking we wouldn't keep him ... but off we went to the vet,
He recovered ... that kitty definitely had nine lives .... hope Riley has no trouble.
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What is the time frame for the birth of Joseph Riedl ...father Jan
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Joseph Riedl was born on March 19, 1872 , His brother James was born in 1870 9/28/1870. Regarding Birth of the father Jan(John) His find a grave says 1843
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22447407/john-riedl
This is also where I found the name Jihocesky
This was Jan(Johns) death index
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N78K-PQ7
Riley is wearing one of those funnel like collars and doesn't like it one bit
I didn't know this but dogs have a third eyelid. They have used the 3rd eyelid as a patch (Pulled it up over his eye and stitched in closed) 0 -
Yes ... I found those records also. So strange not to be able to find them. I did find Osenice (with the e) in genteam. However, the records are in Samrsk archives and I don't know how to access them.
Did you ever find their manifest for coming into the country?
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That was the first place I tried searching for Marie Spicka. I downloaded the birth records and did not find her. I am going to try and download the marriage records just to see if maybe her and Jan(John) married there. I hate those archives.
I have not found immigration docs for Joseph or his parents/ sibs. For Joseph, on the 1910 census says immigrated in 1888, in the 1920 census it says 1885. In the 1930 Census 1885. If it was in 1885, he would have only been 13.
Did you get a chance to look that school record for their daughter? Curious what you thought of that notation of Pilzen after the name Bezdekov?
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FamilySearch has records for Zamrsk: https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1804263. Do the browse the records option.
Betseylee
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Thanks Betseylee! That's a nice alternative.
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I did take a look at that school record and I am reading it the same as you Bezdecov Plsen. I checked those records online ....have not found anyone by that surname. I tried looking online for manifest records with no luck. Might be a problem with the way the surname was spelled. I went to www.stevemorse.org and typed in Bezdekov and also the surname .... only found a Jan b. 1876 arriving from Hodonin But I never got to look at the manifest .... I had to type in my user and password for Ellis Island ... typed it in wrong so they locked me out for 30 minutes ... hate it when they do that. Probably the wrong person anyway. I think Hodonin is in Moravia. I did not realize that familysearch had Zamrsk in their records. Hope you find something. Still thinking of another way to find them.
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Regarding the immigration I am sure there last name spelling is causing problems. Something not to rule out is the port of Baltimore, I found other immigration records there for some other
family members.
When you type the name Bezdekov in at Genteam you get the first page of church names, but there are like 4 other pages, if you scroll down past the first set of names, you will see a little
"next page" icon. So there are many more towns named Bezdekov. The only place I have seen the name Riedl so far is in a church called Stupno, I also saw the name in Pisek.
Maybe we both need to take a break. But I really want to find them, because my good friend I am doing this for last name is Riedl. With you and Betsy's help I have captured all of his family except this important surname.
I'm going to post in the Petrlik post, a name that will get me one step up the ladder. Going to do that after dinner. - Carl
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I agree ...we need to take a break on this. It is frustrating when you have seen the name in official records but still cannot locate them.
I will try again later.
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